Igor Blevin's, "A Native Californian in Knoxville" (Oak Ridge: how much, homes)
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Once you are moved in I'd like to read details regarding changing license plates on vehicles, and getting a new driver's license unless you are able to keep the license from California.
Also after a few months the cost of utilities. The last time we rented an apartment in California was in 1985 and all utilities were included in the rent.
If anyone cares, our monthly gas and electric is higher today than the all inclusive rent we paid in 1985, and we have a small 2-bedroom single story home in Northern California. Water and trash adds another $ 100. The way expenses change with time.
The other thing I'm curious about is how do you deal with the change of climate.
My current ground floor apt has linoleum floors. My hearing loss helps a lot with mitigating the annoyance of stompers on the 2nd floor above me. I had 1 stomper live above. It was slightly annoying but tolerable and infrequent. I have always been a stomper so I am hoping to take it easy on the poor people below me.
The building is 3 years old, built in 2018. I don’t anticipate a lot of downtime with the elevators in such a new building, but who knows? Everything has risks and downsides. I am sober in my expectations. My biggest concern living on the 3rd floor with elevator access was shopping? How many trips do I want to make out to the parking lot to bring in 4 grocery bags, gallon water bottles, and that 6 pack of wine? I am thinking of buying a small cart. It means 2 trips, but no heavy lifting.
At least my apartment shouldn’t flood 3 times like my ground floor unit did during the Covid TP crisis when someone in my apartment was flushing paper towels or handiwipes down the toilet.
At 63 years old, I hope I don’t need a wheelchair during the 3 or 4 years I am renting before I find and buy my next home. My legs are fine as of now but I could get hit by a car or suffer a stroke any day, but I am not planning for that lower-odds contingency.
Renting is just temporary. In fact, Knoxville is just temporary while I do a more thorough search in Virginia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, and Florida. I don’t really know yet which city I will fall in love with and shop for a house, or which state that will be in.
I won’t be buying a 2-story home or one with stairs when I buy my hopefully last ever home.
Thanks for the questions. It is always good to have others bring up issues I may have overlooked, make me reflect, and test my assumptions. So thanks for the help.
I was fine when I retired in 2007 (at 55) but then my legs developed problems in 2013 (when I was 61) and I had to move to a ground floor apartment from a second floor one so I wouldn't have to use the stairs. I use a foldable lightweight shopping cart I keep in the car to bring in groceries, camera equipment and packages from my car trunk to my ground floor apartment so I only have to make one trip. I use it when I travel by car, too. It would work for you if you rent an apartment with an elevator. They sell them on Amazon.
Once you are moved in I'd like to read details regarding changing license plates on vehicles, and getting a new driver's license unless you are able to keep the license from California.
Also after a few months the cost of utilities. The last time we rented an apartment in California was in 1985 and all utilities were included in the rent.
If anyone cares, our monthly gas and electric is higher today than the all inclusive rent we paid in 1985, and we have a small 2-bedroom single story home in Northern California. Water and trash adds another $ 100. The way expenses change with time.
The other thing I'm curious about is how do you deal with the change of climate.
Hi mg,
I have my new Tennessee vehicle plates and I have applied for my new Tennessee driver’s license, so I can answer those questions.
First off, vehicle plates and driver’s licenses are issued from 2 separate agencies. In California, the DMV provides both items. In Tennessee, I had to go to the Trustee for my new vehicle plates and I had to go to the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security for my new Tennessee driver’s license.
Vehicle Plates
I am not sure if I went to the Knox County Clerk or the “Trustee”. It was with one of them that I registered my car in Tennessee and got my new vehicle plates.
No line, no waiting. I went right to the window.
I only needed 3 items to obtain new plates. These were, car title, identification, and proof of Tennessee residency. I used my California driver’s license for ID, and I used my new apartment lease agreement to prove residency.
My car is paid for. I don't know the complication if a bank holds your current title and you don't have a clear title yet.
They took and kept my California title, my pink slip.
The registration fee was $76 dollars. This is the cost if you own a 20-year-old Corolla or a spanking new Ferrari. $76, one size fits all. California DMV charged me $348 the last time I registered my 6-year-old car.
I saved $275 over California.
I left with my new Tennessee plate in hand. Plate, not plates. Tennessee only issues a rear plate. Nobody has a Tennessee front plate. You can leave the front clean or you can put anything you want on the front as far as I can tell, except for a real plate. I see tons of orange “T” plates, for the University of Tennessee.
About a week or 10 days later, I got my car’s new Tennessee title in the mail. My new pink slip is green. The title paperwork in Tennessee is green.
So now I have my nice new Tennessee plate on the back of my Dodge Challenger, and I am no longer “that Californian” driving around causing trouble. I am just another trouble-making local.
Tennessee driver’s license
To get my new driver’s license, I had to go to the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security. I think this was because I am new to the state and being issued a Tennessee driver’s license for the first time, so the requirements are higher than for a simple renewal.
Signs in the building indicated “license reinstatement”, so I guess most people waiting with me were drunk drivers who behaved and were applying to get their licenses back.
I was given a number and an application, and sat down to fill it out. Before I filled in 2 lines, they called my number. That quick.
Along with a California driver’s license, the new license application required 4 additional items – two each of proof of identity and 2 each of proof of residency.
For identity, I had an original copy of my birth certificate, and an IRS 1099. A Social Security card is also good.
For proof of residency, I had my lease agreement and a letter from the new bank where I just opened an account here in Knoxville.
Everybody tells you to bring a utility bill, but that takes a month to get your first one. I didn’t want to wait that long. I was told that I could have my bank write up a letter stating something about my being a Tennessee resident. That is all it took. So I got that letter in advance, and brought it with me to apply for the license. It is fortunate I opened a new local bank account the first week.
The Tennessee Dept. of Safety website page about getting a license for out-of-state folks shows lists of everything they will accept for identification and for proof of residency.
I want to say the cost was around $55. I can’t remember.
She took my California driver’s license away and handed me a temporary paper photo license.
The Tennessee driver's license is good for 8 years. Another change from Cali. In California, you have to renew your license every 4 years, so it was a pleasant surprise not to have to renew for 8 years if I decide to stay in Tennessee.
I should receive the actual magnetized plastic license in 2 weeks or so.
That is the entire process for an out-of-state person to get vehicle plates and a new driver’s license in Tennessee.
And yes, I can confirm that there is a California invasion of Knoxville currently underway. After I handed my California driver’s license to the nice lady helping me with my license application, she said, “Have you seen any of your neighbors here?”
I said no.
“Well, there are enough coming here you are sure to run into one.”
The clear implication was, Californian's are swarming the city in droves. I told her I would try not to screw up her nice state.
Everywhere I have gone in Knoxville, I have been told there are a lot of Californians moving to Knoxville. The first week I was here, I met a man in the parking lot of Nick & J's popular and famous breakfast cafe just north of Farragut. He said he has had 8 families from California move into his neighborhood in the past 2 years. They were all conservatives, so at least he was happy.
Last edited by Igor Blevin; 05-12-2021 at 08:15 AM..
And yes, I can confirm that there is a California invasion of Knoxville currently underway. After I handed my California driver’s license to the nice lady helping me with my license application, she said, “Have you seen any of your neighbors here?”
I said no.
“Well, there are enough coming here you are sure to run into one.”
The clear implication was, Californian's are swarming the city in droves. I told her I would try not to screw up her nice state.
Can't rep you again, but I just spluttered my drink all over, thanks for the laugh.
I have been living in the Northshore area of West Knoxville for 3 weeks. I loved the location immediately upon seeing it. It has grown on me since. It feels like home and I don’t know why. I am trying to understand why I like it so much. Compared to my original criteria for a location, it seems to match up well.
My search criteria:
- Scenic beauty & not flat like Sacramento.
- Close to water. An Atlantic Ocean beach preferred.
- Live on the quiet edge of a city but not in a city. Nothing urban.
- No more than 2 miles to basic amenities.
- No more than 15 minutes to major retail/shopping.
- Within 30 minutes of a city with population at least 100,000.
- Within 4 hours of a metropolitan area with a full complement of amenities like art, parks, museums, concerts, shows, upscale shopping, and possibly sports.
- No snow.
- No brutal summer heat or 6-month long summers.
- Gets thunderstorms.
- Polite, cordial people.
- Livable traffic – no severe congestion.
- Live near an upscale area or wealthy people.
- High-speed Internet.
Scenic Beauty
My area is beautiful.
One thing that makes Seattle so very beautiful is the confluence of trees, mountains, and water. Everywhere in Seattle you can see green mountains or water and often both at once. You can be on a Seattle hilltop and see the Sound, or you can be at the waterfront in Edmonds and still see the forested mountains.
Northshore West Knoxville has all three of those elements, lush green, hills you can see or see from, and water close enough to glimpse, if not gaze upon. It is really warm and pretty here. Everywhere you go is a gentle green glimmering background of trees, and the water is just icing on the cake but you have to have icing, or its not cake. I am surrounded by beautiful upscale neighborhoods, the handsome and well-maintained homes faced mostly in glorious brick or stone. The architecture for most homes around here is a close match for my style and taste in homes.
Close to water
Check. A short walk to the Tennessee River known here as Fort Loudon Lake, if I could walk through someone’s back yard. I have found 5 or 6 riverfront parks or marinas where I can walk, relax, read, or eat while gazing at the water and the homes on the opposite bank. Some are coves or inlets rather than the main river, but still enjoyable.
Proximity to amenities, shopping, and cities
Northshore is quiet, peaceful, and feels secluded. Being at the river means being at the edge of town and it is peaceful here.
Less than a mile from my door begins a corridor of basic retail including grocers, gas stations, pharmacies, banks, restaurants, sandwich shops, coffee providers, and various sundry retail. If I were confined to this area for a year, it would still provide all of my basic daily needs. I can and have walked to both a Publix grocery store and a Target department store.
If I want more, Farragut is a scant 15 minutes away.
Major box stores, retailers, and delicious restaurants are also just 20 minutes up the Pellessiippi, in the Turkey Creek shopping area. Alternately, I can go 20 minutes up Ebenezer/Peters to shopping at Town & Country. The entire length of Kingston Pike from Farragut to the University of Tennessee is packed with retail and restaurants.
I can be in downtown Knoxville, pop. 190,000 in 20-25 minutes.
I can be in Nashville, pop. 700,000 In 2 ½ hours.
Bonus round: I can be in Atlanta, pop. half-million in 3 hours (without traffic).
I have big city access without the big city headaches, unless I want them.
Unexpected bonus: I am less than 2 hours to the most visited US National Park. It is not Yosemite, but then nothing is.
The People
I was hoping for cordial people. I got them. But it’s worse than that. They are down-right friendly.
I have noticed 2 things about people around Knoxville compared to Sacramento. (Generalizing).
People are cordial.
Some will greet me or at least look at me to greet, rather than going around avoiding eye contact or looking at their feet. It seems I am usually the one to say hello or good morning, but a very high percentage of local people around Knoxville return the greeting and acknowledge my existence. It just feels so much better than being constantly annoyed.
People are unselfish
I am amazed at how freely locals give of their time to strangers.
Everybody is busy. People I bothered for help stopped and unselfishly took the time out of their day to help me. Sometimes even staying to chat. In Sacramento, at times you can tell people are just itching to get away and thinking more about how to politely excuse themselves, then in helping you. With the locals I have run into, they have just paused their busy lives and really listened to me, and then responded genuinely, talking as long as necessary to help me or engage. Not superficial in the least. I am still elated at this. What a pleasant surprise. People treating other people with dignity and respect, rather than as an annoying afterthought. What a concept.
And please don’t believe the myth that people around Knoxville hate Californians and give us a rough time or are unfriendly. I haven’t found anyone here yet who has snubbed me, let alone responded in a cold or aloof manner, when I have told them I moved here from Sacramento. And I have told everybody.
A lady came up to me having seen my California plates. She moved from California to Knoxville in 2004. She said here treatment then was really bad. Being from California she was snubbed and ostracized, and sometimes back-stabbed. She said things have changed 180-degrees since then and I should have no trouble at all with people from Knoxville. And I can confirm that last part.
I am also finding drivers to be generally very polite, with good road manners. They drive fast, but seem polite. I can’t speak to rush hour or downtown traffic. But out here in Northshore, and up Campbell Station and up Ebenezer/Peters. Some drivers on Kingston Pike the closer you go to downtown, are on the aggressive/rude side, but most drivers still seem polite and conciliatory.
Other stuff
You can check the boxes on the rest of my criteria. No snow. Fast internet due to fiber optic delivery. Thunderstorms? Yep. Summers will be difficult to endure but they are not 6-months long like Miami or Houston. Traffic is mostly very reasonable. I have only seen one local traffic jam and it cleared in a half-hour.
I live near upscale neighborhoods with wealthy people which means good police protection, they support nice amenities, and neighborhoods are impeccably kept up. No cyclone fences or disabled cars supported on blocks in the driveways here. No homes painted in neon pink or Minnesota Vikings purple. I may stumble across one that is Volunteers orange someday though.
I love living near wealthy neighbors. The benefits are many and wonderful.
I am really enchanted with the Northshore area of West Knox and now I think I know why. There is a lot here I have been looking for in a home. I am still looking, but this place is going to be hard to beat. Basically, it is going to take everything I have here but near the Atlantic ocean and I’m not aware there are too many forested hills along the coastlines of South Carolina, Alabama, or Florida.
I have yet to decide where my forever home will be, but Northshore, West Knox, TN is very high on my list and will probably take an ocean to beat.
Can't rep you again, but I just spluttered my drink all over, thanks for the laugh.
It is true, which is why you are laughing.
I have been on another thread with a nice lady from Phoenix who moved very close to me here, a week before me. She already hates it here and is lamenting problems she perceives compared to Arizona.
I immediately noticed a few "inferior" things about Knoxville myself that I confess I miss about California.
Shoulders along more roads instead of the pavement ending abruptly.
Underground buried power lines insteat of ugly overhead lines.
Highway lighting at junctions like on-ramps and off-ramps, and just generally
Skimpy signal lights hung from wires above without any at eye level.
I miss all of these things but all of them cost money to improve. In their wisdom, the people of the Great State of Tennessee realize, "government that governs least, governs best".
The Founders had it right. Limited government is best.
I would never vote to increase taxes to "improve" these things I miss about California, because it would defy the desires of locals who have been here forever, and it would raise my taxes. Instead, I am learning to adapt to not having what I miss. Meanwhile, I am seeing the value in minimizing. Too many of us invade low tax states and then vote to raise taxes for all of these niceties that are not necessities.
One of the big reasons I am here is due to the lack of state income tax. I don't want to destroy that very thing that attracted me.
Tax savings were not atop my list, but it was an important thing. If South Carolina had no state taxes, I probably would be in North Myrtle Beach right now, seeing how I like it. State income taxes was the tie-breaker between Murrells Inlet and West Knoxville.
So I really want to be conscientious and not screw up your state. I haven't been here long enough to earn the right. More, I like the way your state is now. I don't want to see a Mongol Horde of Californians in Teslas dripping sushi from their windows and rising roughshod over the locals, and turning this into Tennifornia.
I hope I don't screw it up.
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