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I would agree when it comes to secular matters. But I believe when it comes to Torah, there is right and wrong, and only the Torah is our guide. Yes, there is indeed a spectrum of opinions on most all matters in the Talmud, but every one of those sages is coming from the same starting point, which is the Torah that Moshe Rebeinu brought down from Har Sinai.
I look at the world today, and I would love nothing more than to be placed in a bubble where I would no longer have to engage with all the treif thought that so dominates our national discourse these days.
Nobody really has to engage with such discourse. Many Orthodox rabbis, in fact, tell their congregants to use the Internet only for business purposes. One can't really complain if one is purposefully putting oneself out there in the midst of "treif thought" such as one might find in online politics discussion forums (or any online forums, for that matter), Facebook, newspaper websites, etc.
I would agree when it comes to secular matters. But I believe when it comes to Torah, there is right and wrong, and only the Torah is our guide. Yes, there is indeed a spectrum of opinions on most all matters in the Talmud, but every one of those sages is coming from the same starting point, which is the Torah that Moshe Rebeinu brought down from Har Sinai.
But what about Yeshiva?...I thought that I remembered reading that that was the way they came to truth, by debating and takes diversity of thought...
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I look at the world today, and I would love nothing more than to be placed in a bubble where I would no longer have to engage with all the treif thought that so dominates our national discourse these days.
In one way I agree with you on this but in another I think that through diversity and adversity we grow as a mensch...
Rachel, it’s obviously difficult to fully disengage from the treif secular world. I’d like to think on Shabbos, for instance, that we could do so. But it’s like water that’s always finding the path of least resistance. It can’t be stopped. Doesn’t make it any less disgusting.
Richard, in yeshiva, the “debate” is mostly on where to put the comma in a sentence, ie, “how to read” The passage, thereby rendering fully different meanings on occasion.
Rachel, it’s obviously difficult to fully disengage from the treif secular world. I’d like to think on Shabbos, for instance, that we could do so. But it’s like water that’s always finding the path of least resistance. It can’t be stopped. Doesn’t make it any less disgusting.
Richard, in yeshiva, the “debate” is mostly on where to put the comma in a sentence, ie, “how to read” The passage, thereby rendering fully different meanings on occasion.
But couldn’t there be one truth for that comma?...I believe that we learn through debate...Everyone has their own opinion where the comma goes, but there is truly only one place for it...
Rachel, it’s obviously difficult to fully disengage from the treif secular world. I’d like to think on Shabbos, for instance, that we could do so. But it’s like water that’s always finding the path of least resistance. It can’t be stopped. Doesn’t make it any less disgusting.
I'm not so sure about that. One can turn off one's computer as easily as one turns off one's television set. Or even decide not to have either a television set or a computer in one's home. That would certainly be a good start towards establishing one's own bubble. Have you ever discussed with your rabbi how both television and the Internet might be undesirable windows into the secular world?
I'm not so sure about that. One can turn off one's computer as easily as one turns off one's television set. Or even decide not to have either a television set or a computer in one's home. That would certainly be a good start towards establishing one's own bubble. Have you ever discussed with your rabbi how both television and the Internet might be undesirable windows into the secular world?
I get it that you’re trying to show me as a hypocrite, but I think this discussion is more nuanced than that.
I get it that you’re trying to show me as a hypocrite, but I think this discussion is more nuanced than that.
I don't think I quite understand these "nuances." I look for solutions to problems. If the secular world is a threat to one, then it only makes sense to separate oneself as much as possible from that secular world. I don't know what particular Jewish community you belong to, but from your postings over the years I've gotten the impression that it's probably a very insular one. That's why I was curious as to what your rabbi thinks about participation on Internet forums, and whether there might be a danger to one on account of the things one might see and read there. It certainly doesn't sound very conducive to creating the sort of bubble that you're talking about here.
I think with the opportunity of this “theoretical” bubble, it’s the chance to get it right. Diversity of thought is unnecessary, because we already have all the available wisdom starting with Avraham Aveinu, thru Moshe Rebeinu, thru chazal and to the gedolim of our times, to know right from wrong, correct from incorrect, good from bad. There’s simply no need for any further diversity, because we already have found truth - and big surprise, it’s the Torah. There are no athletes, politicians or PTA moms with any further insight that we don’t already have with Torah. So for me, I’ll take a “Torah bubble,” and I’m good. For many of you, I bet that sounds nuts. And that’s why our planet is so incredibly lowly. When you reject the Torah, you reject truth itself.
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Diversity of thought is a necessity to avoid being placed in straight jacket based on how someone else perceives you should live and think. Our planet is far from lowly as the people continue to demonstrate how high they can soar and what they can achieve when unfettered by narrow minded individuals who live life in their own world.
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