Fishers or Fort Wayne?

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Serious Conversation

IMO, if anything, Carmel/Fishers are very affordable given their income levels. Few places in the country are that affluent with home prices that low.

Supply and demand, that area has always annexes like crazy, doesn't have much land in parks/conservation, and no terrain to interrupt the extreme sprawl.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by BabyBear1234

Spring, summer and Fall are great times to visit Ft. Wayne...it's beautiful here then

One of my younger relatives has been playing club basketball up in Ft. Wayne a few times in the recent past. I've went twice as it really isn't a horrible drive. I'm hoping she has some more games when the weather breaks as I'd like to get to the downtown area and checkout the River Greenway. From the little I've seen of the city, it almost reminds me of any random side of town in Indy.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by Serious Conversation

IMO, if anything, Carmel/Fishers are very affordable given their income levels. Few places in the country are that affluent with home prices that low.

There are a lot of people in Fishers and Carmel that are likely paying on mortgages (and likely second mortgages) because while the income is high, it ain't all that high. Median household income is only like around $110K. I'd like to see a true breakdown of household income by percentage of households that make x-y, y-z, etc., but I'm not sure where to find it.

I think the biggest issue for me is how one defines "affordable" and "very affordable." For some, being able to fully pay on a 30 year mortgage means the home is affordable. A $250K, 30 year, 4.5% mortgage is going to cost another $200K+ in interest alone. That is a huge debt load even if the median household income is just over $100K given that many of these people are also starting families. I know the sales pitch from the banking and real estate companies is something like you can buy a home 2.5-4x your income. To me I'd say no more than 2x pre-tax income, but again I'm very debt adverse.

I'm sure for people from other areas of the country, a newer home or solid older home with some updates costing $350K-$450K is a steal given where they are coming from.

[BabyBear1234]

Originally Posted by indy_317

One of my younger relatives has been playing club basketball up in Ft. Wayne a few times in the recent past. I've went twice as it really isn't a horrible drive. I'm hoping she has some more games when the weather breaks as I'd like to get to the downtown area and checkout the River Greenway. From the little I've seen of the city, it almost reminds me of any random side of town in Indy.

Yeah I can see that...I enjoy going down to Indy b/c it has a familiar feel to it...just bigger lol!

[ImmerLernen]

Originally Posted by indy_317

To me I'd say no more than 2x pre-tax income, but again I'm very debt adverse.

Like you, I'm cautious about debt. But, there are different types of debt. A home mortgage, especially at historically low interest rates like today, is hardly the same thing as other types of debt such as credit card debt, student loan debt (especially when the career path you're hoping/aiming for will never allow you to comfortably pay it off), auto loans, and other non-essential debt. Plus, if you're not making a house payment, you're more than likely paying rent...and you need to live somewhere!

If carrying a mortgage allows you to live in a location that has other things that are important to you (e.g., your job location and good schools for your kids), even better.

Your mortgage interest and property taxes are (at least somewhat) deductible against your income for tax purposes.

Finally, if you're fortunate enough to live in an area where real estate values tend to go up over time, you also have the potential to make a profit on your home sale years later...especially if you've maintained or improved the property. That is a bit of a gamble, but if making a profit on the future sale isn't your #1 goal and you can afford it (meaning you make that mortgage payment plus taxes, HOA fees and insurance, month-in/month-out, on time, without it burdening your household budget AND you can still put money into savings/retirement every month), you're probably ahead of the curve.

Whatever makes you sleep well at night, though, is what I always say!

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by indy_317

There are a lot of people in Fishers and Carmel that are likely paying on mortgages (and likely second mortgages) because while the income is high, it ain't all that high. Median household income is only like around $110K. I'd like to see a true breakdown of household income by percentage of households that make x-y, y-z, etc., but I'm not sure where to find it.

I think the biggest issue for me is how one defines "affordable" and "very affordable." For some, being able to fully pay on a 30 year mortgage means the home is affordable. A $250K, 30 year, 4.5% mortgage is going to cost another $200K+ in interest alone. That is a huge debt load even if the median household income is just over $100K given that many of these people are also starting families. I know the sales pitch from the banking and real estate companies is something like you can buy a home 2.5-4x your income. To me I'd say no more than 2x pre-tax income, but again I'm very debt adverse.

I'm sure for people from other areas of the country, a newer home or solid older home with some updates costing $350K-$450K is a steal given where they are coming from.

$110k median HHI is a lot. As HHI goes up, people can spend more on housing because likely won't be spending as much proportionally on things like food or healthcare as a lower income person would. They can stretch that ratio a bit farther.

You're assuming they don't make any more than minimum payments. Someone with a lot of income can probably extra on the mortgage principal from time to time.

Yes, if you can make the same amount in Fort Wayne that you can in Fishers, your salary will stretch farther in Fort Wayne.