Illinois just voted to end cash bail (Chicago, Media: crimes, school)

[RemoteInWisco]

As I am sure most people would agree, the bulk of the problems with crime (especially violent crime) in Chicago is on account of gang bangers. Gang bangers are often Black, which makes it a difficult problem to address because anything involving Black people is a delicate matter politically.

Nearly every time I have ever read a story in the Trib or elsewhere about an offender finally being nabbed they almost always have an arrest record longer than War and Peace. Or they are on parole or on bail from their previous string of felonies. So don't kid yourself that these new bail standards are going to change things much from the status quo. By and large Cook County does not enforce strict sentencing and bail guidelines anyway, and haven't for decades. Most of the Chicago's gangbangers are still on the streets, as they quite literally have to be caught murdering someone before they are likely to face significant repercussions for their actions.

All this new policy does is solidify what has been general disposition of Chicago and the state for a very long time. Namely that in order to make up for systemic racism, criminals need to be treated with kid gloves. And if innocent people need to be victimized or killed in the process? Then this is acceptable collateral damage in the greater goal of racial and restorative justice.

[Caglee]

Originally Posted by RemoteInWisco

All this new policy does is solidify what has been general disposition of Chicago and the state for a very long time. Namely that in order to make up for systemic racism, criminals need to be treated with kid gloves. And if innocent people need to be victimized or killed in the process? Then this is acceptable collateral damage in the greater goal of racial and restorative justice.

The best post in the whole thread right here, you nailed it.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by Caglee

The best post in the whole thread right here, you nailed it.

Yep. And the real question becomes, "Why would any of the rest of us want to remain here, with a much higher risk of becoming Acceptable Collateral Damage?" Especially when the whole argument of Systemic Racism and Restorative Justice are myths to begin with?

[RemoteInWisco]

Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink

Yep. And the real question becomes, "Why would any of the rest of us want to remain here, with a much higher risk of becoming Acceptable Collateral Damage?" Especially when the whole argument of Systemic Racism and Restorative Justice are myths to begin with?

Thanks, both of you, for the nice compliment.

When ideology takes precedence over reality positive outcomes will always remain elusive. And that is Chicago’s problem essentially, on criminal justice issues and numerous others. The world is what it is, not what you wish it to be. Trying to pretend otherwise for the sake of optics is a fools errand.

By and large gang bangers are a waste of oxygen. They will likely continue to be until they are either dead or in prison. You can write all the checks you want to South and West side programs and this won’t change. And the city has, billions of dollars over countless decades in fact, and yet here we are.

What this tells you is there are issues at play which money simply can’t solve. Cultural issues I would posit, that most people in Chicago and elsewhere are not comfortable or capable of dealing with. But until they do we will still be having this exact same conversation 20 years from now. The time has come for some honest and reciprocal dialogue, but I won’t hold my breath.

[G in MP]

Yup.

[medaryman]

I am all for ending cash bail.. not sure why you need money for a judge to determine your risk profile. And judges should be held accountable for their decisions on recidivism as a % of their decisions.

[Curly Q. Bobalink]

Originally Posted by medaryman

I am all for ending cash bail.. not sure why you need money for a judge to determine your risk profile. And judges should be held accountable for their decisions on recidivism as a % of their decisions.

Please educate me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that "Cash Bail" was something that induced people to actually show up for trial, and to not re-commit while on bail. I would hope that the politicians that pushed for this carefully watch the statistics, and if it causes an uptick in crime or people blowing off their trial dates, it should be reinstated.

Note that the state is not obligated to release prisoners awaiting trial, but it does so based on the accused being "considered innocent", and allowing them to live their lives, support themselves and their dependents, and reduces the cost to society by not overloading jails. But if a judge has reason to believe the charged may not show up for trial (maybe having a foreign residence, having skipped a trial before, or having charges that show they are a risk to the safety and security of others), judges definitely have both the right and responsibility to completely refuse bail, and keep the accused locked up while awaiting trial.

So with this change, I'm assuming that everyone is being let out on some kind of "I bond", which is them "giving their word" they will return for their trial? Who's the obvious loser with this change, besides the Bail Bondsmen? Are there any studies that show it to be a good idea? Will it pretty much empty the county jails?

To me, the whole idea of a great deal of time passing between arrest and trial is unconstitutional anyway, aren't we supposed to be guaranteed a "speedy trial"? I understand it takes some time to build an adequate defense, but I would think that would take weeks, not months or years. Is it due to a backlog in the court system?

[medaryman]

Great questions - I think a risk based approach/model is more reasonable though. I know people that have sat in jail because they do not have money to bond out for relatively minor offenses. People usually do not want more problems down the road IMO. I am not excusing crime I just think there is a better method for releasing prior to being found guilty and that includes prior conviction considerations unless we want to speed up proceedings which probably isn't going to happen with lawyers involved. At the point of arrest and detention, the authorities know who they are and if they jump, well, problems down the road I suppose.

[RemoteInWisco]

Originally Posted by medaryman

And judges should be held accountable for their decisions on recidivism as a % of their decisions.

This is actually something I expect to see work its way through the legal system at some point. In Seattle the families of some of the people killed during the whole CHAZ/CHOP debacle have since filed a wrongful death suit.

Extrapolating out from there using this same type of legal precedent for negligence, why not sue judges, politicians, Kim Foxx, etc. when some jagoff is released and ends ends up killing or seriously injuring someone? I am sure the legal parameters of such things are complicated, but people often sue for far less. If my wife or daughter was hurt by some punk with an arrest record a mile long and who was released on ibond you had better believe I would be out for blood.

[Grlzrl]

Originally Posted by RemoteInWisco

This is actually something I expect to see work its way through the legal system at some point. In Seattle the families of some of the people killed during the whole CHAZ/CHOP debacle have since filed a wrongful death suit.

Extrapolating out from there using this same type of legal precedent for negligence, why not sue judges, politicians, Kim Foxx, etc. when some jagoff is released and ends ends up killing or seriously injuring someone? I am sure the legal parameters of such things are complicated, but people often sue for far less. If my wife or daughter was hurt by some punk with an arrest record a mile long and who was released on ibond you had better believe I would be out for blood.

It wouldn't matter. You would just be collateral damage.

Carjackings are way up this year. I could do downtown for a day and get car jacked and shot and it would just be another day at the beach here. I would be forgotten in 15 minutes, just like all those south side kids that get killed day after day.