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Currently the Lincoln Service does four daily round trips between St. Louis and Chicago with several stops in between in five and a half hours. While it's taken a while, especially with the federal requirement to add Positive Train Control to make trips safer and hopefully less prone to operator error, the investment in improving the service is ongoing and still slated to happen in the next few years. It's currently running more reliably, and supposedly more safely, but one of the big changes is a shortening of the trip duration by one and a half hours to a total 4 hour trip.
The current Hiawatha Service from Chicago to Milwaukee with a few stops in between runs seven daily round trips and makes the trip in a little less than an hour and a half. Wisconsin's DOT has lined up funding for increasing the number of daily round trips to ten, and Illinois DOT itself is for it, but there are currently some hangups in Glenview surrounding the use of Glenview station. The states are still pushing for it and there are likely compromises in store such as shifting the Amtrak stop to the North Glenview station, though doing so would take a few years to modify such a station.
Since both improvements are likely a few years away, it may be a good time to start discussing if it might be the better option to merge the two improvements. The slated Lincoln Service improvements just so happen to lessen the trip by 90 minutes while the Hiawatha Service happens to take 90 minutes. The Lincoln Service has four daily round trips while the Hiawatha Service is going for an initial three additional daily round trips increase. The Lincoln Service enters Chicago Union Station tracks from the south while the Hiawatha Service exits from the north.
Given that the rolling stock / trainsets for Lincoln Service already exist and the total trip time with improvements will remain the same (and therefore does not require an additional shift if extended to Milwaukee), it seems reasonable to consider extending the Lincoln Service to Milwaukee upon the completion of improvements made to both services. It's not just a matter of efficiency, but also how much more useful train services are when there are more one-seat ride possibilities as not every rider is looking to only go between the two terminal cities of each service and passengers generally have a preference to avoid layovers and transfers. Extending Lincoln Service to Milwaukee in order to fulfill Wisconsin's intention to have greater frequency of service to Chicago can then create a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts in regards to ridership.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-01-2019 at 10:06 AM..
I see your point but it’s a pipe dream given the lack of federal support, public support, reliance on automobiles and rampant NIMBYism
I get what you mean, but it's not a pipe dream in this case or at least the constituent parts aren't.
The Lincoln Service improvements are for the most part already funded and were funded as part of the high-speed rail stimulus package from a while back. It hit some snags due to the rolling stock manufacturer and the requirement for Positive Train Control, but it is funded and currently happening.
The Hiawatha Service is cleared for funding from the state DOTs, most notably Wisconsin's since the change in leadership there and is able to get matching federal grants provided Illinois can figure out how to placate Glenview. Luckily, there's actually a presentable, though less convenient option, currently under discussion to have the Amtrak stop at the North Glenview station. Is that ideal in terms of service to people in the surrounding area? No, but it's mostly Wisconsin driving for service.
As these are both concurrently happening, with the Lincoln Service improvements actually having had "shovels in the ground" for years now, then all I'm proposing is to combine the two efforts. You don't add any shifts or purchase additional rolling stock from what you have now since the Lincoln Service already does its run in the same timespan now for what it would do to Milwaukee in the future.
Essentially, the potential pros and cons of having these two be one project instead of two separate ones are:
Possible Pros for combined service:
- Rolling stock and crew hours costs are already baked in for Lincoln Service since it'll be the same trainset for the runs and the hours will be the same as for the current run and thus won't incur additional overtime hours since it will still be a five and a half hour trip total trip time for the crew with no additional rolling stock / trainsets or crew necessary to get those additional Milwaukee-Chicago trips which WDOT wants and will fund
- Four additional daily round trips for the Milwaukee to Chicago run rather than the three additional daily round trips that the Hiawatha improvement plans for
- A greater number of single-seat trip combinations which can be more enticing for customers and therefore gain more ridership and fare revenue for the same number of trainsets and crew hours; this obviates the need for layover / transfer if anyone wanted to do a trip combination stops that are separately part of the current Hiawatha and Lincoln Services
- Aside from saving money through not having to have additional rolling stock or more train crews to attain those additional Milwaukee-Chicago round trips as mentioned previously, as well as potentially getting more ridership and thus fare revenue due to the greater combination of potential trip pairs mentioned previously, this also amortizes costs of running the Lincoln Service to a third state (Wisconsin)
Possible Cons for combined service:
- Will need adjustments to train schedules so that Hiawatha and Lincoln Service for the Milwaukee to Chicago stretch aren't bunched together. For example, if you just extended 90 minutes from the start time of a current southbound Lincoln Service train leaving Chicago at 9:25 am, then you'd get a southbound train leaving Milwaukee at 7:55 am which is really close in time to the current southbound Hiawatha service leaving Milwaukee at 8:05 am. That's not optimal, so you'd want to adjust the schedules a bit which may displease some current regular riders though you might also please others.
- Crew members currently living in the Chicago area who are operating the Lincoln Service will likely need to be based out of the Milwaukee area instead otherwise they'll be in for a long commute, but really, what's so wrong about living in Milwaukee?
- Will need to negotiate track usage for the Milwaukee-Chicago stretch for one more additional daily round trip this would have over the current planned increase (since this would be four additional daily round trips rather than three additional)
- Potential for less reliable service on the Milwaukee-Chicago trip done by an extended Lincoln Service compared to solely Hiawatha service increases as delays on the Chicago-St. Louis leg would percolate up the line--though this should be a minor issue due to the improvements made for the Chicago-St. Louis service
- The Lincoln Service now serves stops outside of Illinois in two states which might feel odd given the name of the service
Overall though, this seems like it would both save money in accomplishing the same goal of additional Milwaukee-Chicago service and yet yield better service with an additional round trip and providing more potential ride patterns.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-01-2019 at 11:03 AM..
I believe they tried it once. Biggest problem: when the train from St Louis was late, passengers in Chicago would have to wait until it got in. It was especially bad for the commuters on the 4:30 P.M. Train. They might have to wait until 5:30, just short of when they should be getting home!
I believe they tried it once. Biggest problem: when the train from St Louis was late, passengers in Chicago would have to wait until it got in. It was especially bad for the commuters on the 4:30 P.M. Train. They might have to wait until 5:30, just short of when they should be getting home!
Yes, true, but the investment on the Lincoln Service in recent years and in the future were meant to tackle the reliability issue with grade crossing eliminations, sidings, signal improvements, etc. I did still list this as a potential negative, but it's supposedly been greatly mitigated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintainschaos
It would be interesting, but the logistics may complicate the issue. In any event, it doesn’t seem like there’s a proposal to do it anytime soon...no?
I don't think the logistics should be that complicated. It is actually possible to through-run in Chicago Union Station and this requires no building of new stations or buying of new trainsets. If there was to be additional Hiawatha runs anyhow, then you're not taking up more space. If it's already a single crew shift for a five and a half hour Lincoln Service on the current St. Louis - Chicago run, then it's still a single crew shift for a five and a half hour Lincoln Service on the future St. Louis - Milwaukee run.
I'm kind of scratching my head on what about this plan is particularly unreasonable.
If you think this sounds reasonable, maybe call your representatives?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-02-2019 at 02:29 PM..
I don't think the logistics should be that complicated. It is actually possible to through-run in Chicago Union Station and this requires no building of new stations or buying of new trainsets. If there was to be additional Hiawatha runs anyhow, then you're not taking up more space. If it's already a single crew shift for a five and a half hour Lincoln Service on the current St. Louis - Chicago run, then it's still a single crew shift for a five and a half hour Lincoln Service on the future St. Louis - Milwaukee run.
I'm kind of scratching my head on what about this plan is particularly unreasonable.
If you think this sounds reasonable, maybe call your representatives?
I don't think it's unreasonable, but I think the logistics that may make it complicated are simply the train congestion in the area.
I've taken the Lincoln service (and the train that goes to Texas, whatever it's called) more times than I cared to count to get back to my parent's home in Springfield. The number of times we more or less sat or were delayed getting through Chicago, either to/from Union Station, or the times that the train just crept laboriously along "due to [waiting on another train, waiting on a freight train to pass, waiting on switching for another train]" was very high. Those are the logistics I could imagine complicating things.
To be honest, the most laborious part of that trip was *always* getting from Madison to Chicago. Of course, we know that any thought of train service to Madison died with Walker as governor...
As for calling my rep, I live in Maryland now, and I don't use the Lincoln service anymore. My father used to a lot, but he's getting to the age where a "quick jaunt up to Chicago on the train" is becoming less feasible for him.
I don't think it's unreasonable, but I think the logistics that may make it complicated are simply the train congestion in the area.
I've taken the Lincoln service (and the train that goes to Texas, whatever it's called) more times than I cared to count to get back to my parent's home in Springfield. The number of times we more or less sat or were delayed getting through Chicago, either to/from Union Station, or the times that the train just crept laboriously along "due to [waiting on another train, waiting on a freight train to pass, waiting on switching for another train]" was very high. Those are the logistics I could imagine complicating things.
To be honest, the most laborious part of that trip was *always* getting from Madison to Chicago. Of course, we know that any thought of train service to Madison died with Walker as governor...
As for calling my rep, I live in Maryland now, and I don't use the Lincoln service anymore. My father used to a lot, but he's getting to the age where a "quick jaunt up to Chicago on the train" is becoming less feasible for him.
That’s a good point as at the start of this decade, Lincoln Service trains were late about half the time and the severity of that lateness could run a pretty wide gamut. However, the investments made to the Lincoln Service route (and the portion of the Texas Eagle that shares the tracks, though I by no means advocate for Texas Eagle service to continue up to Milwaukee) has meant that on-time performance has dramatically improved and there are still ongoing improvements being made for the next few years which will make this even better.
I also think extending a route if it constantly screws up the schedule isn’t going to be of very much good, but the signs have been good and look to be improving.
My experience with the Lincoln Service being delayed typically involved a freight train that had priority. It's my understanding that Amtrak doesn't own the tracks, but that the freight companies do.
I'd be all for the expansion though. I wouldn't mind being able to take a train up to Milwaukee from St. Louis, especially once they finally get the "higher speed" cars going. It would likely take longer than driving though due to likely having to add stops in places like Waukegan, Kenosha, Racine, etc, in addition to Milwaukee as the terminus.
All of that being said, they do really need to fix the final approaches between St. Louis and Chicago first. In the St. Louis area, the train crawls between downtown and Alton, IL. If you're heading up to Chicago, you'll honestly save 45 minutes sometimes if you can just board at the Alton station. The same sort of slowdown happens once you hit the Joliet-Summit-Chicago section in Chicagoland.
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