illegal immigration; facts not emotion (military, border, English, children)
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Most of the workers on construction jobs are not craftsmen, they are laborers, I don't want that work, and you should not either.
Look at Rome for a moment, 80% of the population were slaves, they did the low end jobs so the Romans were free to pursue the high end. You and I and the rest of us should always be striving for the best we can be and the best we can do. If a workman is happy with $30,-40,000 a year, that is fine, but, in this economy you should be educated and or trained well enough to double that, especially if you want a home, car, wife, children.
All the more reason to clamp down on illegal immigrants and in particular; the 'American' business owners who are criminals by knowingly hiring the above.
Besides: till about 150 years ago; medicine was a low paying, low prestige blue collar field.
Today it is a 'plum' field-----yet, is showing the signs of losing status-------otherwise; why so blasted many foreign born MD's albeit with proper qualifications?
All the more reason to clamp down on illegal immigrants and in particular; the 'American' business owners who are criminals by knowingly hiring the above.
Besides: till about 150 years ago; medicine was a low paying, low prestige blue collar field.
Today it is a 'plum' field-----yet, is showing the signs of losing status-------otherwise; why so blasted many foreign born MD's albeit with proper qualifications?
No way is the medical field losing status, it remains among the most respected jobs in the USA. Many problems such as insurance and funding technology advances complicate the field, but the profession is among the absolute best to achieve in the USA. In addition, very smart foreigners want to attend our medical schools because they are so internationally respected.
Attack all ideas and concepts you want, but this is just incorrect.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,185,184 times
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We as a country have the right to enact laws restricting the amount of immigration. It's in fact reasonable as well as constitutional to do so (of course laws don't have to be reasonable). People here mostly don't want their taxes spent on health care for an enormous flood of immigrants, they want to have jobs in this country with health insurance and pensions and enough money to get by with an occasional luxury etc.
That is why we have voted in legislators who have enacted laws to restrict immigration to a reasonable inflow.
Unfortunately, it's not in the interests of many corporations and wealthy individuals such as ndfmnlf and greatbasinguide to support such laws .... one might lose one's taxfree gardener or maid, for example. For the corporations, having a flood of job applicants means one can stop offering a benefits package and can reduce wages ..... not only does that result in greater profitability, but it also enables them to offer the same quality product for a lower price than their law-abiding competitors.
This is not a purely capitalist country, thank God, and hasn't been since the 19th century. If it were, the vast majority of us would be living lives as miserable as those of workers back then. We're able to enact laws to "promote the general welfare," as the Constitution says.
Let me be clear about this, I am not expressing right or wrong, good or bad. Their should not be illegal immigration, but to think that Hispanic illegal immigrants are welfare recipients, lazy, bad people is just nonsense and is very likely racism.
I see on this board emotion not facts, opinions not facts, base your opinions on the actual data.
Daily Oregonian
Las Vegas Review Journal
Foundation for economic education
WSJ excerpt;
Full article; Immigration's Costs -- And Benefits - WSJ.com (broken link)
no disrespect to this post, but it would appear that it is an educated and convincing argument for illegality. the same argument could be used for the promotion of prostitution, cocaine sale, and gambling. my fear is that since gambling has already won, and perhaps soon too illegal immigration, the rest will soon follow.
stephen s
san diego ca
No way is the medical field losing status, it remains among the most respected jobs in the USA. Many problems such as insurance and funding technology advances complicate the field, but the profession is among the absolute to in the USA. In addition, very smart foreigners want to attend our medical schools because they are so internationally respected.
Attack all ideas and concepts you want, but this is just incorrect.
In view of the tremendous debt the majority of medical students graduate with, the medical field may be 'losing status' as a career choice for students. Top students are may consider careers in law or business as opposed to going in to medicine, which they probably would have done 30 years ago.
American Medical Students Assoc.:
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The latest statistics on medical student debt are staggering. According to a recent report published by the American Association of Medical Colleges (2006):
It is estimated that over 86% of graduates carry educational debt.
The median debt burden for graduates of public medical institutions has risen to over $119,000 while that for private school graduates has increased to nearly $150,000.
41% of students with educational debt report principle in excess of $150,000 and a significant minority reports debt as high as $350,000.
Medical education debt is 4.5 times as high in 2003 as it was in 1984, growing well beyond the consumer price index.
greatbasinguide to support such laws .... one might lose one's taxfree gardener or maid, for example.
Remember what I posted about the difference between what one posts and what some one thinks they read? Tell you what Woof, retired teachers out of Nevada tain't rich.
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no disrespect to this post, but it would appear that it is an educated and convincing argument for illegality. the same argument could be used for the promotion of prostitution, cocaine sale, and gambling.
For a start, I cannot see how what you read has any connection to what I posted, yet
Prostitution, cocaine sale and gambling are legal in Nevada, actually cocaine sale is legal in every state, often used in eye surgery.
In view of the tremendous debt the majority of medical students graduate with, the medical field may be 'losing status' as a career choice for students. Top students are may consider careers in law or business as opposed to going in to medicine, which they probably would have done 30 years ago.
American Medical Students Assoc.:
Medical Student Debt (http://www.amsa.org/meded/studentdebt.cfm - broken link)
The number of applicants to US medical schools peaked in 1975.
CQ HealthBeat News - Medical Schools Admitting More Students Than Ever Before (http://public.cq.com/docs/hb/hbnews110-000002606063.html - broken link)
And too my thoughts concerning declining social status for MD's:
40 years ago Dr's were almost considered to be 'God' in the Marcus Welby/Dr Kildare vein (no pun intended)----by the early 1970's malpractice suits; whether they were all legit or not, started hitting physicians.
The OBGYN's; in particular, were hard hit.
Safer (for now) to be an attorney or even a CPA, etc.
Heck: even prior to the problems faced by MD's; physician's assistants along with nurse practitioners started appearing------and, are multiplying. They are essentially doctors in all but name as it is-----yet, may be at less risk for malpractice suits due to the lack of 'MD' in their titles.
No way is the medical field losing status, it remains among the most respected jobs in the USA. Many problems such as insurance and funding technology advances complicate the field, but the profession is among the absolute best to achieve in the USA. In addition, very smart foreigners want to attend our medical schools because they are so internationally respected.
Attack all ideas and concepts you want, but this is just incorrect.
Agreed. Although, my pediatrician (who is white) went attended medical school in Mexico. He learned spanish (which got him a better wage) and cut down on tuition.
Then legalize them. If they risked life and limb to come here to work and contribute to the US economy.....that is the best single indicator that they deserve US citizenship. That is even a better indicator than the attitudes displayed by natural born Americans who think they are entitled to a job just by accident of birth.
For once I some what agree with you, give them a date comply with at least be in the process of obtaining citizenship or deport them. Problem solved.
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Remember what I posted about the difference between what one posts and what some one thinks they read? Tell you what Woof, retired teachers out of Nevada tain't rich
Funny how you have the money to visit all these countries and sail down to Mexico. If you're not well off, I must be on the poverty line cause I don't have money laying around for those things.
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Most of the workers on construction jobs are not craftsmen, they are laborers, I don't want that work, and you should not either.
Speak for yourself.
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ndfmnlf, I admire your use of the language and your ability to respond with reason to people who are driven by ideology to ignore rationality.
Spare me. Don't start the holier than thou bit. You both are just more careful at hiding your insults in your psycho-babble, and I come right out and say it.
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Cite examples of FMGs that outbid American doctors in pay, and I bet you'll find none. The FMGs who are licensed and legally work here receive about the same compensation as American grads. The reason is that once US residency training is over and the trainee is board certified, the FMG's skills are deemed equivalent to that of the American grads. What decides compensation is the ability to treat patients competently and humanely. If your patients like you, you will get compensated. In other words, MARKET FORCES. Supply and demand. These will determine how much money you make. It doesn't matter where you graduated from. Besides, the entities that cut your paycheck (i.e. insurance companies, HMOs, Medicare, Medicaid) are largely unaware of your nationality. All they see when they receive a bill from a doctor is a number (called the National Provider Identification number). It is as close to a level playing field meritocracy as one could get.
All you did here was prove my point. I asked how you would like it if someone with the same skills as you was willing to work for half the pay, and your response was "That will never happen, even the foriegn Doctors get paid the same". Exactly my point, you don't know how it feels and probably never will. If you knew how it felt or had it happening to people you know your opinion would be different, GUARANTEED.
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not really an accurate statement. The cost of living in Mexico approximates that of the US, the wages are about 10% of American tho.
Wow. My wife works in food service, with literally all Mexicans besides her, and they tell her all the time how far the American dollar goes down in Mexico. I will have her tell her co-workers that came from Mexico on work visa's that they are in fact wrong. Thanks for the info.
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Bye the Bye, racism is usually based ultimately on economic fear. That was one reason the blacks in the post reconstruct South were kept oppressed.
Stop playing the race card. Seriously, it's getting old.
The point is that those of us on here that are against illegal immigration are never going to convince some on here otherwise. You ask them simple questions, they offer multiple accounts of misdirection, articles or off the wall explainations that make no logical sense, because they don't have a logical answer. Until this issue directly affects them, which it may never, they will do nothing but come up with excuses why breaking the law, putting American citizens out of work, overpopulating communties and giving countless hand outs for things an American citizen has to pay for is acceptable. I may not be "educated", I didn't even finish high school, but I have a lot of what it seems some individuals on here have little of, and that is common sense. You can keep fighting to protect the illegals and keep them here, but I assure you I will do everything in my power to get them and keep them out.
Today it is a 'plum' field-----yet, is showing the signs of losing status-------otherwise; why so blasted many foreign born MD's albeit with proper qualifications?
Because there is a shortage of doctors in this country. Because Americans are getting older and sicker and need more health care providers. Because technology is getting more complicated, requiring more and more people with expertise to run them. So your objection to foreign doctors is that they're foreign? Is that it? Wow, that's racist. Look at their qualifications instead. See if they match the needs of the aging American population. (Answer to that is YES). The same logic applies to Mexican strawberry pickers. Do they meet an economic need that cannot be filled otherwise? Answer is YES. Then let them come to this country and WORK.
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Heck: even prior to the problems faced by MD's; physician's assistants along with nurse practitioners started appearing------and, are multiplying. They are essentially doctors in all but name as it is-----yet, may be at less risk for malpractice suits due to the lack of 'MD' in their titles.
PAs and NPs work under the supervision of doctors. If a patient has an undesirable outcome, he will likely sue everyone involved in his care ---- and that includes the PAs, NPs, and of course the MDs. You are grossly misinformed.
I welcome the appearance of NPs and PAs to the health care profession. I don't view them as competition. They enhance my practice because they take care of the simple cases so I can attend to the more difficult ones.
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I may not be "educated", I didn't even finish high school, but I have a lot of what it seems some individuals on here have little of, and that is common sense.
Just a suggestion: go back to school or get more training to obtain more skills that will make you more competitive. That's all there is to it. Instead of whining that foreigners are taking away your job, you need too work on making yourself more marketable. That's what we all do. Why should you be any different?
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