Coeur d'Alene PROS & CONS (Moscow: best town, universities, living)

[Chevelledan]

Hi all, My wife and I are wanting to move to Idaho. Twin falls or Pocatello. I keep reading about how much Idaho folks hate Californian's. We love everything we have been reading about Idaho. We don't want to change anything, we love our guns, muscle cars and America. We're not wanting to change anything about Idaho. I work for Costco and will be trying to transfer. We are very anti-California. Looking forward to a better class of people. Nice chunk of property so the kids can have animals, and a big shop to work on old cars. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Sage of Sagle]

Originally Posted by Chevelledan

Hi all, My wife and I are wanting to move to Idaho. Twin falls or Pocatello. I keep reading about how much Idaho folks hate Californian's. We love everything we have been reading about Idaho. We don't want to change anything, we love our guns, muscle cars and America. We're not wanting to change anything about Idaho. I work for Costco and will be trying to transfer. We are very anti-California. Looking forward to a better class of people. Nice chunk of property so the kids can have animals, and a big shop to work on old cars. Any thoughts or suggestions?

We love to hate Californians, mostly because about 30-40% of us ARE former Californians who came here to get away from that mindset and we don't like the attitude of current Californian visitors. People with CA plates drive rudely, expect to be catered to, and want Idaho to change to suit them. I see that now from visitors as I'm out and about in Sandpoint and CDA.

You sound like you'll fit right in. Get here, slow down, take a deep breath and decompress, look out for your neighbors, let other cars go first at stop signs and driveways, enjoy your muscle cars and kids, and you'll adapt to be an Idahoan before you know it. I also found my prejudices falling away the longer I lived here. As an LA area cop, I was losing the battle with prejudices, especially because cultural stereotypes were so often reinforced and I was the object of so much racism and abuse as a white cop. What I find now is that I really enjoy hearing spanish again, and since pretty much everyone fits the "American culture" regardless of their race up here, there's no culture war like I saw so much in SoCal where the reconquista movement was so hostile to non-hispanics.

[Sandpointian]

Originally Posted by Chevelledan

Hi all, My wife and I are wanting to move to Idaho. Twin falls or Pocatello. I keep reading about how much Idaho folks hate Californian's. We love everything we have been reading about Idaho. We don't want to change anything, we love our guns, muscle cars and America. We're not wanting to change anything about Idaho. I work for Costco and will be trying to transfer. We are very anti-California. Looking forward to a better class of people. Nice chunk of property so the kids can have animals, and a big shop to work on old cars. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I am sure your intentions are good, but I cannot think of a worst reason to move somewhere than to be anti-somewhere else!!

Allow me these responses, born in large part of my current ornery mood and after a summer of tourists.

Idahoans cannot "hate" Californians since most of them are refugees from California!! Nor can they hate Washingtontians, Oregonians, etc. Makes absolutely no sense. We are not haters, but lovers and caretakers of the human and natural gifts that have been bestowed upon us.

I find those who profess "hatred" from their former states, where they raised their children and built their careers, as potentially hypocritical. Many draw government pensions and therefore living off of taxpayers, i.e. those Californians, Washingtonians, and Oregonians who are slugging it out in the global marketplace to pay the taxes that fund those pensions!! I can however see why people have become disillusioned with the growth of government in private lives, crime, crowding, pollution, and have sought escape to greener pastures. I can also see how locals cringe at the behavior of outsiders who flock here during our summers. I see the ratio of the cringeworthy as being independent of state and country of origin. Canadians can be great or obnoxious just as much as Californians or Seattleites or New Yorkers

Coming to Idaho does not need "anti-something" reasoning. Its own attributes are compelling on their ow. We are awash in natural beauty, nine hours to pretty much the most beautiful and uncrowded beauty in the world. We believe in small government and large freedom, though how we work this out between like minded individuals can take considerable effort if one party is NID in spirit and one is not. And hopefully we can main enough common sense going forward not to define ourselves in terms of other states. We are a mix of communitarian and libertarians. Nature here is everywhere and everything. We tread lightly and seek to deliver to our descendents an America that is fast disappearing. It is not to be trashed or hijacked for your private benefit without respect for the rights of others, present and future. All this takes work, most especially restraint a commitment to not impose our views on others.

Do not get caught in the trap of coming to try to make Idaho something that other states are not! It leads to the "Vermont" problem, where New Yorkers and other Yankees flock up to Vermont to make Vermont fit twisted images that long time Vermonters do not share.

Do not bring baggage from political discussions that are native to other states and wholly irrelevant here. That is the easiest way to identify someone who has yet to embrace their inner Idahoan.

We love muscle cars and America, based on that you should be happy. Costco, a Seattle-originated company, more California than Idaho, but that is OK.

I like guns, too. The engineering, the history, the competition, and the responsibility. But please note that guns are second nature here. I do not know a single person insane enough to participate in something like this Father of 9-year-old who accidentally killed instructor with Uzi manages Jersey City firm, report says | NJ.com. Never have I seen so many responsible and mature gun owners. I would prefer that yahoos and pseudo macho men stay far away. The hunters I know are quite unassuming and humble. Great people. You'll love that Elk stew!

Better class of people? Hmmm....I'd like to think my friends are great people, but then again, I have felt the same about all my friends from all over the world and US. I would say however, that strangers here are incredibly friendly. However, how much of that is DNA and how much of that is low population density, our lakes, the natural beauty, the freedom and a healthy respect for our good fortune? You have to decide for yourself. I think it is the place that defines and shapes our species. Whatever it is, it is intoxicating and commands me that I ought to protect it!

Finally, what I have noticed is that a good number of families with kids who start out of town, eventually move into town or at least close to their kids schools. Trust me, I understand the "call." But the management is more apropo for empty-nesters rather than shuttlers of kids. Perhaps a rental for a year or two will help you and family the data to make an informed choice.There is no rush. Haste is costly here. Would suggest differently if you have a large self-sustaining brood that is homeschooling or flushed with horses and other animals.

Good Luck. You'll love it.

S.

[banjomike]

Don't let The Little Cabin Home In The West fantasy snooker you!

Living on a hobby farm is a very difficult and is immensely time consuming. It's also very expensive when there is more than an acre to look after. Any farm less than 20 acres will starve a horse if you depend on pasturage alone, and the pasture has to be irrigated and cultivated with careful attention. Same goes with any animal that's intended for the table. Large animals all require hay during the winters, and must be fed more in the winter to keep their weight and health than in the summers.

This means that if you can't grow the feed on your property, you will have to buy it. Growing a hay crop requires a major investment in a tractor and implements, and buying it depends on the price and availability of the hay crop. Since the west has been in major drought for over a decade with no signs of easing, much of Idaho's hay is now sold out of state, going to the ranches in California, Oklahoma, Arizona, and other droughty states.

If 20 acres isn't well tended, it turns into a gigantic weed patch in no time. 10 miles out of town has a different meaning here, as the closest town may only have a population of 1,000 or less. A shopping trip to a city that has all the stores most folks from California take for granted can be a full day's effort that requires a 100 mile round trip. A grocery run can burn up half a day, and a trip to the doctor even more time.

Small schools here may not have all the kid's activities someone from California is accustomed to. Even in the cities, it's still common to see many businesses close at 9 pm or earlier, and be close all day Sunday. Forget the 24/7 convinces of California. They simply don't abound here. Also forget instant cell phone communication. There are many places here where cell phones don't work at all, and many more where there are constant drop-outs.

Out here, don't expect to have an EMT show up if there's trouble outside city limits. Don't expect neighbors to come running, out in the country, either. While we are very friendly and quick to help, everyone who lives here has to be self-reliant to a much larger degree than in California. If you are in trouble out in the boonies here, it's up to you first and foremost always.
This may sound easy, but it is not, at all, especially if you have spent an entire life where there are many more people around constantly.
Those who come to depend on others to help them out constantly often wear out their welcome quickly here. A neighbor may generously clear your snow, but if you come to count on it, the clearing will stop quickly, and it will soon be your turn to clear the neighbor's snow. Overly dependent folks don't ever last long in the country here, and much of the same is true when living in town.

The one thing I've noticed with the ex-Californians I know is how hard it was for them to become accustomed to the silence and isolation out here. Out in the country, which is only 40 miles outside of any city in this state, it's common to spend an entire day with seeing no one. A close neighbor can be 10 miles away on a dirt road. When night falls, it's DARK. Idahoans are used to this isolation, but it's the single thing that causes a lot of arrivals to turn around and go back to where they came from.

Don't expect everyone here to be of a like mind, either. Idaho is generally more tolerant of racial and cultural minorities here than in states with higher populations because we have almost no neighborhoods that aren't completely mixed in every social divide that exists. We are just as divided politically here as any other state, and forming close friendships here can take a long time, as Idaho sees most things in life differently than in other states. Those who fit in here do so quickly, and those who don't have a hard time for quite a while.

Welcome! But don't expect Idaho to be the Paradise of the West. It is not. Living here has never been easy, but for us who love our lives here, there is no better place to be.

Come out for a visit, and leave all expectations behind. You'll know right away if Old Mother Idaho is the place for you. Just remember she smiles on and bites her children as she wants in equal turn.

[HDL]

Great post Sandpointian !!! When I read some of the posts of folks complaining about CA and wanting to move to ID, I feel happy and sad at the same time +=. Happy that we're getting rid of them , but sad for ID that you are getting our 'problems' . A lot of the folks posting about wanting to move to ID sound somewhat 'crazy' to me . I've lived in both ID and CA and they both have pluses and minuses . Bring your "BEST" self to wherever you move ! And please quit the CA bashing ! It's rather hypocritical .

<<<No emoticons were harmed in the making of this post >>>

[Sage of Sagle]

And there you have it. Sandpointian and banjomike bring some of the most balanced perspective you could hope to hear. Even better than mine since obviously I was one of the California haters by the time I got here and it really did take me time to just chill out.

I try not to hate California, and the longer I'm away the easier it gets...but I'm saddened to see what the state has turned into from what it once was, and I wish that people who live there now could have seen what it was 40 years ago when it was such an incredible place to be. I'm just happy to be an Idahoan now...

So nice that we have such well spoken and intelligent people on this forum to share their wisdom and life experiences with us all...

[banjomike]

Thanks, Sage.
Really, Chevelledan, I wasn't trying to be harsh with my earlier post. It's simply that most of the folks who are thinking of moving here these days were born and raised in a large urban environment and have no idea at all of what life here is really like.
Californians probably have an easier time of adjusting than many of the folks I've come to know who moved out here from Illinois; they have a much different culture there, but California is still very western in most of it's culture. Those folks already know what a hard winter is, because they have them in Illinois, but it's the culture more than anything, and all the other stuff that comes with living in a big city where anything can be gotten at any time, day or night.

The life in Idaho Falls, or Boise, or Coeur d'Alene is pretty much like life in a big city, but without some of the 24 hr. stuff. But living on a farm 15 miles out of a town like Orofino or Jerome in the middle of winter and dealing with a broken water pipe on a Sunday morning is another thing altogether. There may only be 2 plumbers within 50 miles or more, and neither one answers the phone on Sunday mornings.
If you can't stop the water yourself, you're going to be out of luck for hours. If the man of the house is away, his wife has to be able to do it by herself.

That's the kind of practical self-reliance Idahoans develop. The natives have it bred into their genes. Folks out here would tackle a broken pipe first, then call the plumber only if all else fails. That's why the plumbers can take Sundays off.

[bk8123]

I live in Grapeview Wa ground zero for the Cascadia Earthquake and Tsunami. Our elevation is 43 ft so we will be underwater about 5 minutes after the big one. I don't want to be here when that happens. I am looking at schools for my 3 grandsons, work for my son-in-law, and health care for all. Cost of living? Can you provide any info? Anyone?We are thinking Northern Idaho?

[banjomike]

Originally Posted by bk8123

I live in Grapeview Wa ground zero for the Cascadia Earthquake and Tsunami. Our elevation is 43 ft so we will be underwater about 5 minutes after the big one. I don't want to be here when that happens. I am looking at schools for my 3 grandsons, work for my son-in-law, and health care for all. Cost of living? Can you provide any info? Anyone?We are thinking Northern Idaho?

I think you don't need to move that far east to move to the other side of the fault line and live in an area with higher elevation.
While I have looked at the maps of the most extreme reach of the Big One's tsunami for quite a while, as I recall the water won't cover the eastern half of Washington state.
But if I was in Washington, if and when, drowning would be the least of my worries. The thought of living and worse, surviving, scares me a LOT more.

I also don't believe any projection will be anywhere close to accurate if and when the real deal happens. There's a lot of modern data, but not very much ancient and historical data. Even in Japan, where there is a lot, and they get tsnamis regularly, there are only a few spots on the Japanese Islands that have been hit so often that the data on them is reliable.

I have been in 2 big earthquakes so far in my lifetime. The first was in 1959. I was 8 mies away from the Hebgen Lake quake when it happened, and it was 7.5 on the scale. The second was offshore of Lima, Peru in 1966, while I was serving in the Navy. That one was 8.1. Both killed a lot of people, and both were very, very terrifying. The San Francisco quake of 1906 was 7.8. Two these formed tsunamis, and one broke a mountain in half and turned it into a dam that created a lake.

A Richter quake of 8 is very, very strong. The Big One, by some projections is totally off the Richter scale. Will it be a 10? a 20? No one can say, but each decimal point on the scale is 10 times stronger than the weaker one. Off the Richter scale is simply far beyond the worst a human can imagine. There has never been a 10 on the scale since it was created.

Personally, I don't live life in fear of such an off the scale disaster as the Big One. I've lived less than 100 miles away from the Yellowstone caldera all my life, and I've felt many small tremors from the quakes that occur there all the time. If the caldera ever blows, there is no place in Idaho that won't be hit by the ash if the caldera collapses. Depending on the prevailing winds of that moment, there's no place in Washington that won't be hit by the ash either.
In fact, the ash could extinguish all live west of the Mississippi if some of the projections on that event are correct.

No matter what any projections are on the Yellowstone quake, I live so close that if there were no warnings coming from the earth before it blew, I would have enough time to bend over and kiss my butt goodbye.

If there were any warnings, I wouldn't try to flee if I could. I wouldn't get very far, and the time spent before I died would be like waiting with my head on the executioner's block, anticipating the blow of the falling axe. No thanks to any of that.

I see my closeness as a blessing. I would not want to be a survivor in either of these events. A life after either would be short, miserable, and very, very distressing in every way. Either would extinguish all life so massively that existence would only be a short and terrible wait for a merciful stroke of the grim reaper.

Nothing in everything we know, nothing we do in our lives right now would survive. Every survivor's life would be so bad from then on, into a span of hundreds of years, that I wouldn't want any survivors in my family. That would be cursing them to wish otherwise.

If you feel differently, please ignore my own thoughts. But if you are going to bug out of Grapeview, I would plan on putting well over a thousand miles between me and the Washington coast if I were you.

[Hanapepe]

Originally Posted by banjomike

Thanks, Sage.

Californians probably have an easier time of adjusting than many of the folks I've come to know who moved out here from Illinois; they have a much different culture there, but California is still very western in most of it's culture. Those folks already know what a hard winter is, because they have them in Illinois, but it's the culture more than anything, and all the other stuff that comes with living in a big city where anything can be gotten at any time, day or night.

banjomike, can you please explain further about the different culture? I am from IL and am considering Idaho. The winters do not scare me, as you mentioned. But what is so different about the culture? I have done a lot of reading and think that I would love it out west, but maybe I am missing something. Or maybe I am not the typical Illinoisan! I am planning a visit this February to see if I feel a connection, and if so then more extensive trips and research to come. But the fact that you mentioned people from IL specifically as having adjustment problems makes me curious. Thanks!