Publix on County Line/Shopping Center & Other Commercial Development (Huntsville: schools, calculation)

[surfside]

Originally Posted by ionlife

I also found out that they plan to widen Balch Road to five lanes (guess we don't get a say in that like the people off of Hughs Road) from Gillespie up to 72. I don't know how that will impact our entrance to our subdivision,

Ionlife,

A little history -- the people off Hughes Road didn't block the widening, the whole city did when they resoundingly voted down a tax increase for capital improvements a few years ago that included a boatload of road, recreation, and other projects. Since then, the city has been doing road projects only as money was available. The city (and the present City Engineer) have accomplished an amazing amount of road construction on an almost non-existent budget.

There's a lot of "magical thinking" that goes on in Madison: the belief that somebody else will pay for the things we need. If you compare your property taxes here with what you were paying wherever you came from, you'll understand why city officials are desperate for almost anything that will generate sales tax revenue.

I've lived here for about 14 of the last 20 years, so I've seen a lot of change. But time doesn't stand still, and none of the 8 municipalities we've lived in elsewhere in the last 30 years could guarantee that land use would remain the same forever. The only way you have a chance to do that is to own the land yourself, and even that's not a guarantee ...

[Charles]

Originally Posted by surfside

...voted down a tax increase for capital improvements a few years ago that included a boatload of road, recreation, and other projects.

Does this attitude persist? Meaning, with hindsight, would those people vote tomorrow the way they did then considering Madison's unimproved roads and the voted down recreational amenities?

[surfside]

Originally Posted by Charles

Does this attitude persist? Meaning, with hindsight, would those people vote tomorrow the way they did then considering Madison's unimproved roads and the voted down recreational amenities?

I'm not sure if enough new people have moved into the area and registered to vote yet to tip the balance. There's always been a real anti-tax attitude here, and it seems to infect newcomers pretty quickly. It's amazing how fast people who paid $2000 or more a year for property taxes where they came from adapt to the lower tax rates here and think that any increase is the work of the devil ...

[friday13]

Originally Posted by Mawoods

Hopefully, Mad city is thinking ahead and can make it nice and pedestrian friendly at the same time.

I cannot see that sense of foresight with the planning so far. The simple fact that the City and County allowed recent development (s/d entry, houses) just feet away from a 2-lane that will MOST likely be widened (or in need of) in 5-10 years is baffling to me. Then they go eminent domain happy on the owners. When it was much easier to keep a buffer farmland for street widening. But it wouldn't make money sense then, would it? (residential property tax vs peanuts on farmland).
The best illustration of the "pedestrian friendly" joke is the neighborhood just across from Columbia Elem., Wall Triana neighborhoods in walking distance from West Mad. or the Adams and other low-cost builders that have cut corners on curb appeal (no sidewalk(s), narrow s/d streets, half-length-wide driveways>>people park in the street).
Here's another one (this in the city of Hsv): next time you go home from Bridge Street, make a left on Old Madison Pike, and just after you come off the 4+1-lane overpass (Research Park Blvd. below it), before the traffic light at S.R.255 (?)- look to your right to see an orphaned sidewalk (in front of the Steeplechase townhouse complex). They built it, but it leads to nowhere! Oh, wait, it might have been intended to connect with the other side of Old Mad. over the bridge and the S.R. ramp. In 4 yrs I've worked here, I've only seen 3 people venturing over the bridge (on the BStreet side). While the road planning may have been brilliant in 1985, the execution and the upgrading lack big time.

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by surfside

I'm not sure if enough new people have moved into the area and registered to vote yet to tip the balance. There's always been a real anti-tax attitude here, and it seems to infect newcomers pretty quickly. It's amazing how fast people who paid $2000 or more a year for property taxes where they came from adapt to the lower tax rates here and think that any increase is the work of the devil ...

The thing is, they bought in Madison with existing narrow streets and no side walks, but once they moved in they complain and wish/demand that Madison has the same ammenities as the big city with high property tax where they moved from.

[uahacct]

Here is the 2025 Buildout traffic map for the City of Madison. They are taking a measured approach and improving or widening streets consistent with this plan (e.g., they won't widen a road to a 5 lane highway if it isn't consistent with this plan).

http://www.madisonal.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=241

Originally Posted by friday13

I cannot see that sense of foresight with the planning so far. The simple fact that the City and County allowed recent development (s/d entry, houses) just feet away from a 2-lane that will MOST likely be widened (or in need of) in 5-10 years is baffling to me. Then they go eminent domain happy on the owners. When it was much easier to keep a buffer farmland for street widening. But it wouldn't make money sense then, would it? (residential property tax vs peanuts on farmland).
The best illustration of the "pedestrian friendly" joke is the neighborhood just across from Columbia Elem., Wall Triana neighborhoods in walking distance from West Mad. or the Adams and other low-cost builders that have cut corners on curb appeal (no sidewalk(s), narrow s/d streets, half-length-wide driveways>>people park in the street).
Here's another one (this in the city of Hsv): next time you go home from Bridge Street, make a left on Old Madison Pike, and just after you come off the 4+1-lane overpass (Research Park Blvd. below it), before the traffic light at S.R.255 (?)- look to your right to see an orphaned sidewalk (in front of the Steeplechase townhouse complex). They built it, but it leads to nowhere! Oh, wait, it might have been intended to connect with the other side of Old Mad. over the bridge and the S.R. ramp. In 4 yrs I've worked here, I've only seen 3 people venturing over the bridge (on the BStreet side). While the road planning may have been brilliant in 1985, the execution and the upgrading lack big time.

[ionlife]

I haven't asked to see the Master Plan yet. I think a rep from our HOA Board might be the best person to do that. As for the "history" re: Balch Rd. I have no reason to object to the widening except that it is going to cut even closer to our neighborhood due to lack of foresight (as Friday 13 mentioned in his post).

I am not against change. I am against poorly planned change. I'd LOVE to see a Master Plan (is there one really??). But we'll see. Still waiting on my district rep to tell me where he stands on this issue. Is he for it or against it? Educating us as to why things were done years ago or how they were done isn't really building goodwill. Neither is telling us why we're misinformed. No. I'd say building goodwill would be saying "I believe you have a legitimate case here. I can see that the majority of my constituents are against this. Therefore I will do my job and work with the council to see if they can come up with another viable way to raise revenue to build the roads and fund the schools."

Now that would build goodwill. But no one I know who has asked about his position has received that kind of response.

The meeting was good. I'd love to know who passed out those flyers. Now that we have been educated and corrected, perhaps we can band together and put out the real information.

[ionlife]

Originally Posted by uahacct

Here is the 2025 Buildout traffic map for the City of Madison. They are taking a measured approach and improving or widening streets consistent with this plan (e.g., they won't widen a road to a 5 lane highway if it isn't consistent with this plan).

http://www.madisonal.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=241

Those red numbers are projected numbers based on what data? Just curious? I guess there is a magic formula where the numbers are calculated based on traffic volume now plus projected newcomers to the area in the future due to BRAC relocations.

None of this information shows or demonstrates to me why a gas station/convenience store is necessary on the disputed corner.

And what's really hilarious is that the people at the first P&Z meeting basically trotted out that map (I think they had a sign on their desk that said "we don't care" according to one person sitting in the room who called) and went on and on about how they make a ton of money off of gas tax and gas station inspections. Then they demonstrated via a map where all the gas stations are (North on 72 and South on Madison Pike/blvd) and said that we needed MORE gas stations interior of the city. Of course, that being our interior site. And NOW many people have been told that it isn't for sure blah blah and to ask for the site to be zoned B2 commercial with a restriction against gas stations.

How easy will that be to accomplish when the owner of the land has an interested convenience store company and the engineering/tech people have a map of all the gas stations and why we need one inside the city? Hilarious when one considers all the back pedaling.

Who to trust? Who to believe?

[ionlife]

Originally Posted by surfside

Ionlife,

the city has been doing road projects only as money was available. The city (and the present City Engineer) have accomplished an amazing amount of road construction on an almost non-existent budget.

If you compare your property taxes here with what you were paying wherever you came from, you'll understand why city officials are desperate for almost anything that will generate sales tax revenue.

.

I'd wager as you are new to the forum that you are probably part of the city's infrastructure. And I appreciate your points. Now my property tax will be raised to support the new school/roads as has the sales tax by .5 cents. Now looking at this post, I'm pretty much assured that the council feels they must allow this change due to the need for even more revenue.

So then I guess my question is: how will the council sweeten the pot for those who are directly affected? Like along Gillespie the developer for the neighborhood close to Publix arranged for a swath of bushes/trees to be planted to buffer the sound. Could the city do the same for our neighborhood? And would the city be willing to layer in a lot of taller trees and excellent landscaping around the gas station I know they will vote for as a way of easing our bitterness?

Change can happen. I understand that and I have lived it in far larger communities. But it doesn't have to be ugly.

How would we go about ensuring the landscaping and architectural guidelines are adhered to and who would be best to contact regarding these changes so that all could be appeased?

I want to build goodwill. But many people, myself included, have been ridiculed, teased and downright disregarded in this matter. It's no wonder so many hackles are raised.

How do you propose to lower them?

[friday13]

Originally Posted by uahacct

Here is the 2025 Buildout traffic map for the City of Madison. They are taking a measured approach and improving or widening streets consistent with this plan (e.g., they won't widen a road to a 5 lane highway if it isn't consistent with this plan).

http://www.madisonal.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=241

I see the map is pretty dated (Aug2006).

If I were the City I would review that yearly to see how the original assumption/calculations held up and adjust accordingly. I'm no engineer nor good at math (except money math) but I cannot believe for a sec that this projection doesn't have some 3 or 5-yr markers (if not less). You cannot just project something 20 yrs from 2005 just like that. It just looks numbers drawn out of a hat. So, how far off is the actual 2009 traffic count from the projected 2009 TC?