Champion Windows? (how much, vinyl, Lowes, heat)

[Shuffler]

We bought a house that was built in '89 and the original windows (21 of them) are all pretty shot ... double-pane casement-type, most have blown seals and the glass just looks terrible. Tried washing them after we moved in and the water got in between the panes, they fogged up, etc. We need a couple new sliding doors as well.

Going by what others have told me, I'm budgeting $20-30k as the high end of having the whole house done by a major window company. A little (or a lot?) less if I chose to go with an independent contractor.

I'm getting the impression that replacement windows are like other 'religious' subjects such as motor oil - opinions are all over the place, there is no right answer, and really "it all depends".

So, got my first estimate last night from Champion. They've been in business for 50yrs, have a local manufacturing facility in Denver, and offer full lifetime replacement warranty, no questions asked. Poking around the web, opinions vary ... mostly good, some 'okay', and a few 'they suck'. Same goes for the 'other' brands...Simonton, Andersen, Pella, JeldWen, etc. Enough to make my head spin.

Their estimate was just over $20k to replace all 21 windows and install 2 new sliding doors. Up to another $3k if we wanted to do a fancy new entry door. We're planning to go to their showroom and look at things more closely, as well as getting more bids from other providers.

Who's had experience with Champion? Would love to have some constructive opinions.

[eggalegga]

I bought two windows for my basement from them. One for my family room, one for a planned basement bathroom. Both are white vinyl framed, sliding windows. Love that both panes of glass slide and that the screen slides back & forth too.

Didn't pay to get Champion windows for my garage window nor my sliding glass patio door. Champion windows were too "nice" IMO for a garage and their sliding glass door was a little pricey/too nice for what I needed and the neighborhood I live in. I had already replaced all other windows in my home.

I'm happy with the product, the company and the the salesman I worked with. What I'm disappointed in is there financing company. I think I put my small purchase on 0% for 6mos or a year (sorry, can't remember exactly.) They didn't send out a statement each month so I could make payments before the 0% interest rate expired, nor did they make it easy to make payments on my account. I think the financing was through Capitol One. Other than that, I would recommend Champion for window replacement.

[TrapperL]

We have a Champion plant about 35 miles north of here. The market they sell into here is the absolute bottom of the barrel. They may have different product in different market areas though. I've had the sashs leak, no drainholes for slider windows, and the always popular leaking seals. I've even seen the glass fall out of a new window. And I've seen the energy saving glass installed backwards in the sash. They would be my absolute last choice for new windows here.
If the sashs are in good shape and the balances still work, have you considered just getting them reglazed? Should be a lot cheaper and you won't have to fool with windows that will be smaller than the hole and the mickey mouse trim they use to make it look right. There are different types of glass and you might research the different ones to see which is of the most benefit for your area. Here, we fight the intense heat so a Low E Sq glass window makes a HUGE difference in the amount of heat energy exchanged. With glass like that we are able to laser probe a finished wall and a window and get almost the same temperature- it won't vary but a degree or two.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

We bought a house that was built in '89 and the original windows (21 of them) are all pretty shot ...
Going by what others have told me, I'm budgeting $20-30k as the high end of having the whole house done by a major window company. A little (or a lot?) less if I chose to go with an independent contractor.

VERY high end.
$7,000 ($333ea) should be enough for an all at one time job.
For $10,000 (even in NJ) they should have an all girl bikini wearing install crew.

[Shuffler]

Originally Posted by MrRational

VERY high end.
$7,000 ($333ea) should be enough for an all at one time job.
For $10,000 (even in NJ) they should have an all girl bikini wearing install crew.

Now that would be a helluva deal...but with what kind of window and what kind of warranty/guarantee? I don't want to be replacing these windows ever again (if we can help it). From what I've heard, 20-30k is pretty standard around the Denver/Boulder area from the bigger companies.

I see the risk with independents being that they can't afford to extend good warranties, fix/replace for free, or even be in business if/when the time comes. I'm willing to pay more for these assurances.

Just the same, I am getting a handful of estimates.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

From what I've heard...
Just the same, I am getting a handful of estimates.

Have you ever seen a window replacement crew work? They don't mess around.

With the two experienced people per opening most commonly used...
they can have the job done in about an hour per opening.
(demo the old window; clean/prep the opening; set the new window)

Lets pretend that they are decently paid and get some benefits... OK?
With payroll cost somewhere in the $25 per hour range that's $50 per opening

Put a little extra on that for the general stuff and to haul off all the packing & trash...
and of course for the contractor to make a profit for that jobbing effort too.
Where does that leave you? (around here that would be $100-$125 per opening)

Call it $150 per opening to be sure you haven't missed anything.
That's $150 *regardless* of which window you choose.
----

The $7-10,000 numbers I used in my first post ($333-$476 per opening) leave you
with a shopping budget for the window alone from $183 to $325 each.
You can spend more if you want (you can ask my ex for help if you don't know how).

Measure your windows to create a "buy list". Here's how.

Go to two GOOD lumberyards (not Lowes or HD) and get a price for all 21 windows.
Any brand or features you like (or want or need). If you can get the actual building
supply company to deal with you... even better. Ask them about HOW the warranty works.
Either way... be sure the price includes delivery to the house and ask about terms too.

Tell us what the twenty one windows at once price choices you end up with.

[Squirl]

I used Champion for 2 sets of front street facing picture windows plus each have 2 side moveable windows. I am happy with my Champion windows, however the exterior vinyl finishing strips (don't effect actual windows) are starting to buckle a bit; we had the windows installed in 2006 so the cosmetic stuff is out of warranty. I have had a custom 8 foot tri-patio doors replaced by another local shop at a much lower price than quoted by Champion and quality just fine. As I slowly replace more windows in our 1981 built house, I will be using local companies simply to keep the price down. I pay cash for everything so I tend to buy as needed and unless it was an absolute necessity, I wouldn't do all the windows at the same time.

[Shuffler]

@MrRational - great insight/advice - thanks! One of the things I'm planning to do is go to the locally-owned building supply place and look at what windows they can get...I bet they even know some reputable independent contractors who'd install at a fair price.

My brother and his wife went with Champion last year and said they did an outstanding job...but it also cost them $21k. The idea that they are locally made and have an outstanding warranty is appealing...but using your math, I see I'm paying extra to cover the overhead they carry as a large company (vehicles to maintain, advertising costs, salaries, insurance, retirement, taxes) and it gets passed down to the customer.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

One of the things I'm planning to do is go to the locally-owned building supply place...

Don't show up without your list of sizes and ready to order.
You don't have to order then... but you need to be seen as though you are.
Odds are they won't sell to you anyway or even quote you though. They really have no reason to
That's why you go to the retail lumberyard. But choose the REAL one.

But if ones DOES come back with Andersen 400 series or Pella 450 series windows for $200-250
(on average)... you need to be ready to pull the trigger. Don't rush it. But be ready to.

Focus your conversation on other things like delivery date and warranty rather than price...
but as soon as you can yeah, get them to quote their prices...
"I need 21 in all... 15 are size X, 3 are size Y, and 3 are size Z...
I'm looking for the delivered price on the whole order at one time... how soon for how much?"

When they raise the installer question (and they will) ... "Oh, I've got that covered"
Talk about your brother in law who is coming to visit over Labor Day or something.

[Shuffler]

Quick follow up ... we ended up just replacing all the thermal panes with Low-E glass and saved upwards of $15-20k vs. doing full replacements. Dollars saved to allocate to other projects.