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LOL - well, another view might be "charity." Of course, this is not a tax deductible contribution, so the pain isn't mitigated that way, either. I get your point. Essentially, I don't like being forced to pay charity. In WI, we have an energy assistance program. Each month my gas/electric bill contains a line item charge of anywhere between $1.5-$4 to pay energy bills for those who can't pay them. I know a few people receiving energy assistance. Can't say they are all that deserving. They are where they are because of choices they've made. And, some of them really do know how to work the system. But, we live in a society of way too many people who've had bad luck, make their own bad luck, refuse to help themselves, and scam the system. So, do we ignore them all??? How to separate the wheat from the chaff? I don't know and I'm beyond fighting that battle at this point in my life. One thing I do know for sure, it's a battle that can't be won.
Location: Prescott Valley,az summer/east valley Az winter
2,061 posts, read 4,134,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD
Actually it's just another welfare program for the people who did not earn a lot, work a lot or work at all paid for by the people who worked hard. In addition those companies who actually have very good plans now must pay millions to the government to keep those good plans. This had nothing to do with health care. This was a payer shift from gov't and insurance to the private person and their employers who are doing well.
Checked with our company this morning~ healthcare costs to the company are now about 60% of what they were prior to ACA~~ nope, whoever is feeding you the info on cost of healthcare to companies is either blowing smoke or knows not what he's talking about.
Checked with our company this morning~ healthcare costs to the company are now about 60% of what they were prior to ACA~~ nope, whoever is feeding you the info on cost of healthcare to companies is either blowing smoke or knows not what he's talking about.
In nations which have both controlled costs and invested in peoples healthy living they were able to do so by teaching people about health, placing doctors and patents close together in neighborhoods and keeping the high disease costs of diabetes congestive heart failure etc under control. None of that has occurred here and though the models for success were easily replicable the USA decided to plan under the who pays formula. That is unfortunate. Some countries building a fence at the cliff and the USA building hospitals at the bottom of it.
That was then and still is the real issue. How to maintain a healthy populace. Maybe the ACA will help some but the 400 lb diabetic will still show up at the ER door.
Checked with our company this morning~ healthcare costs to the company are now about 60% of what they were prior to ACA~~ nope, whoever is feeding you the info on cost of healthcare to companies is either blowing smoke or knows not what he's talking about.
Businesses haven't been able to purchase from the SHOP exchanges yet, so whatever savings claimed aren't due to purchasing exchange based plans. You do know businesses can currently still purchase non ACA compliant plans this year (the ones that were outlawed for individuals to purchase due to not meeting all ACA mandates).
Business mandates and opening of SHOP exchanges start in 2015
LOL - well, another view might be "charity." Of course, this is not a tax deductible contribution, so the pain isn't mitigated that way, either. I get your point. Essentially, I don't like being forced to pay charity. In WI, we have an energy assistance program. Each month my gas/electric bill contains a line item charge of anywhere between $1.5-$4 to pay energy bills for those who can't pay them. I know a few people receiving energy assistance. Can't say they are all that deserving. They are where they are because of choices they've made. And, some of them really do know how to work the system. But, we live in a society of way too many people who've had bad luck, make their own bad luck, refuse to help themselves, and scam the system. So, do we ignore them all??? How to separate the wheat from the chaff? I don't know and I'm beyond fighting that battle at this point in my life. One thing I do know for sure, it's a battle that can't be won.
We have most of us fallen on hard times at one point or another. I sure did and with help I worked myself out of it. It took years. Now I am just asked to give my money to the person who never contributed, stands on a corner or shows up at the ER without any effort to stay healthy. It's quite different from what I envisioned my country was going to be.
All I can say, is given the choice would you opt to pay $300 more as a couple for healthcare making $100,000+ a year, or make half of what you do and get a small subsidy for your health care? The majority of lower wage earners are very hard workers. No one likes the goof offs, but they do not comprise the majority of low wage earners. How much harder do you suppose it was for a family making $40,000 or less or an individual making $30,000 or less to pay for health insurance when there was no sliding scale and they had to bare the full cost. How about the 60+ yr. olds with lower incomes and outrageous premiums and copays. Are you aware of the number of companies that DO NOT provide health care for their workers and some of them are working two and three jobs to try and make enough to live.
EVERY well off country with any form of health care prices it on a sliding scale so everyone can have access to proper care. You obviously just don't care if everyone has access to decent health care, or you want some magic fairy in the sky to pay for it.
Our real problem is not the cost redistribution of health care, it is the cost of healthcare that is the problem. And that's what you should be angry about.
Maybe the ACA will help some but the 400 lb diabetic will still show up at the ER door.
Well, this, for sure, is a MAJOR pet peeve, for me. When I worked, I saw plenty of 250-400 lb women - clearly intelligent, who KNEW BETTER, but, yet, almost defiantly, ate the worst possible food. They absolutely KNEW better. We had a cafeteria with steamed veggies, salad bar, fresh fruit. Of course, these people never chose those foods. It was always the FRIED onion rings, french fries, white hamburger bun, soda, bakery, candy. For whatever reason, they had a death wish. Several, under age 50, have since died but not before costing our employer plenty in medical expenses - in one case over a million dollars in health care expenses. She'd brag about it. This was an otherwise smart woman. Ended up completely disabled, left the state to live with her parents, died at the age of 48.
I've finally concluded, in some cases, it really isn't a matter of education. There's just too much info out there - and has been for decades - on healthy eating. Certain people ignore that information because they have psychological issues. They don't view maintaining good health as a personal responsibility or their poor health as an imposition on others, their employers, and society. Instead, they prefer their self-destructive passive-aggressive behavior which, in the end, often results in their premature demise, or worse, 20 years of expensive disability.
Well, this, for sure, is a MAJOR pet peeve, for me. When I worked, I saw plenty of 250-400 lb women - clearly intelligent, who KNEW BETTER, but, yet, almost defiantly, ate the worst possible food. They absolutely KNEW better. We had a cafeteria with steamed veggies, salad bar, fresh fruit. Of course, these people never chose those foods. It was always the FRIED onion rings, french fries, white hamburger bun, soda, bakery, candy. For whatever reason, they had a death wish. Several, under age 50, have since died but not before costing our employer plenty in medical expenses - in one case over a million dollars in health care expenses. She'd brag about it. This was an otherwise smart woman. Ended up completely disabled, left the state to live with her parents, died at the age of 48.
I've finally concluded, in some cases, it really isn't a matter of education. There's just too much info out there - and has been for decades - on healthy eating. Certain people ignore that information because they have psychological issues. They don't view maintaining good health as a personal responsibility or their poor health as an imposition on others, their employers, and society. Instead, they prefer their self-destructive passive-aggressive behavior which, in the end, often results in their premature demise, or worse, 20 years of expensive disability.
I don't think too many would disagree with your assessment. If the person or persons you were referring to had a good job (decent living wage) and could afford to eat and feed their families well balanced healthy meals then the problem is obviously not associated with poverty. I think most very obese people suffer some form of psychological issues. Then there is the rest of us, who could all shed 20 or 30 lbs.
Sad to say, we are the "fat Americans". But we are number 3 in the world in large population of diabetes. China is number one and India is number two. In addition to it being associated with obesity, it is likewise associated with poor diets and eating a lot of refined foods, like rice and bread. You know the stuff that fills you up, but is cheap to buy.
But I can't help but shake my head any time a public person tries to initiate eating a healthier diet, like Michele Obama trying to promote growing your own vegetable gardens in schools and changing our lunch programs in school and trying to encourage exercise. She was almost burned at the stake for her efforts. Similarly when Mayor Bloomberg tried to impose limits on those ultra huge sodas, and soda tax was suggested. Seems America needs a little help, but try and give it and we are accused of government interference and imposing their will on it's citizens. Just can't win sometimes.
Last edited by modhatter; 07-31-2014 at 05:20 PM..
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