[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by 121804

It's becoming a waste of time to post anything on this forum anymore.

As the author clearly stated, "best" is intepreted differently as many posters on here have the right to say; it's just again laced with the typical find what can be wrong so that one can say it is wrong.

The author definitely has an agenda. What author does not? Also, it is for Newsweek, which also has an agenda. I should have posted "Florida has 7 of the top 25 with a biased author who uses questionable methods". To be a good educator, one has to think out of the box & make people question things. Too many in the general public just haven't figure this out as read in the posts. The general public will just blame the state, boards of education & teachers for all the problems due to their lack of knowledge & commitment to learning the system. If you read what the author is saying, you see what he is doing. Did anyone see that some of these schools are in horrible neighborhoods in some states & that they had kids going to college & performing well?

There are good schools out there in any state that are not recognized for the good they do & sometimes different authors use different methods. But this is the "Florida" forum, so extreme views come into full effect, to probably include my own.

It's just balancing out here my man.... It looks as though you aren't really referring to me, but I think you have a point that there's no cause to dismiss the accomplishments of the individual schools as they obviously don't suck if they are included on this list.

My own personal point is that we should still temper our judgement on Florida Public Education in it's entriety and not get too excited and suddenly proclaim how good Florida schools are over this.....

[121804]

I was not intending to categorize Florida schools as all good b/c there is enough evidence to state that they are in sad shape along with so many other states. But, as in any state, it takes some time, research & own opinions & needs to find the best match for one's child. This author found some in Florida that met HIS criteria.
Because, if one HAS to live here & has high school age children, there are some schools that are good. Some, not all

And there are states out there with much better & much worse systems than Florida. This is not the state my child will be attending school for a variety of reasons.

Personally, I Moderator cut: please refrain from making this a political discussion

It is really inaccurate & irresponsible for anyone to label all schools in Florida as awful or all schools in Florida as good. But it is logical to assume that there may be a few good ones & that, is all based on personal opinions & experience.

[Prichard]

Ya. Seminole High School in Sanford and University High are rated higher than Winter Springs High School and Winter Park High School.

Riiiiiight. I'll be moving to Sanford next week just to get my kid into Seminole!

People who live in Seminole County know where the best schools are. Likewise for Orange County. If anyone really wants to know how the schools are ranked, all they have to do is ask the locals on this board.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by Prichard

Ya. Seminole High School in Sanford and University High are rated higher than Winter Springs High School and Winter Park High School.

Riiiiiight. I'll be moving to Sanford next week just to get my kid into Seminole!

People who live in Seminole County know where the best schools are. Likewise for Orange County. If anyone really wants to know how the schools are ranked, all they have to do is ask the locals on this board.

LOL!!!! I didn't even catch that...

I remember this poll now. I don't think it's the first they've done and it is almost exclusively based on the number of kids either in, or that pass AP exams.... I remember discussing it with some co-workers and wondering how Seminole got so high when they are a perennial 'C' school on the FCAT...

[121804]

The headline in the paper stating that Florida's 3rd grader FCAT scores were inflated up to 8% last year due to a "glitch"....interesting, needless to say...

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pb...NEWS/705240431

But, if one weighs Florida's school system on FCAT, I don't know what to say.

[Tarastomsgirl]

hey #464 Barrron Collier High, I went there. Loved it!!

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by 121804

The headline in the paper stating that Florida's 3rd grader FCAT scores were inflated up to 8% last year due to a "glitch"....interesting, needless to say...

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pb...NEWS/705240431

But, if one weighs Florida's school system on FCAT, I don't know what to say.

Well in what I'm referring to it's a Florida school vs. a Florida school, so it's not like anyone would get screwed by the "accidental inflation" or anything.... Just any report that rates Seminole above Winter Springs needs to be balled up and thrown out.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by watsont3

I have been following these Florida threads for many months hoping to get information prior to our move. It seems to me that every time someone posts some positive news about Florida, a number of posters have to come out and minimize the good news and try to discredit it.
Florida has 7 schools in the top 25. That is good news. We should be trying to see what we can do to bring more schools to that level of excellence. Instead of calling the schools in Florida "awful", let's get off of our duffs and see what we can do to make all the schools better. Even bad schools have good students, teachers and administrators. Let's work with them to change the perception that the schools are awful. While we are doing that, let's congratulate the schools near the top of that list for their ability to make education work.

This forum is excellent in revealing both sides of many issues in Florida. Sometimes it may appear to be a criticism of a personal opinion, but if approached with an open mind, much may be learned. I don't know about you, but I would want to know if I am being mislead or deceived (even if it makes me feel better). This Newsweek research is bogus to all schools... more students taking advanced placement tests have nothing to do with school quality. Criticism was not directed at Florida schools. It was directed at a magazine that attempts to deceive.

[daedalo]

Its easy to load up a school with bright students or load a class with bright students and get good performance out of them and get accolades for the school or class.

But a better measure is to compare the best with the best, It is a well known fact that family income is a high determinant of SAT scores. So the SAT looks at the scores vs. family income. And guess what, no surprise, that students of families in states in the Northeast make higher scores than students of similar incomes in Florida. In fact, a student with a family income of $70k in Massachusetts (that is just getting by up there) scores as well as a student from a family in Florida making over $100k. So all I have to say is that Florida has a very long way to go. In fact it has some of the lowest SAT scores for family income in the entire country. I believe it is in the lowest 25% nationally. Education dollars per student, dollars per square foot for school facilities, and dollars for teachers in Florida all rank very low nationally. I consider these to be the best indicators for student performance along with family income.

Let me run through my logic, however flawed, on why Florida as a whole will NEVER have quality education accross the board. It starts with the fact that Florida predominantly supports a service economy, so the dominant population is from persons in lower paying non-professional jobs, and the percentage of the population with professions is therefore lower. Education is an expensive state undertaking and requires high revenues. Growth is also a factor. Families in a service economy have more kids than professional families. So the proportion of service economy students is widening in Florida, not lessening. So the state, with burgeoning growth must provide more classrooms from a per-capita income population that is low. In addition, the political power to enact/tax is held down because the dominant constituency is the lower income constituency. Even if the politicians are from the professions in Florida there are still not enough of them, not a big enough professional population to make a political difference to enact legislation to pay teachers more yada yada. Now compare this with states that have high performing educational systems. Massachusetts is dominated by the professions. It has a tradition of elite colleges, and low population growth. So the education dollars can focus on upgrading facilities not building new facilities. Teachers also get a decent living wage in Massachusetts.

So education is generally not a good topic of discussion in Florida as a whole. You do have choices as earmarked by this thread, get your student in an elite school if you can, or move to a wealthy county that will have higher performance, or finally, and this would be my recommendation, move to a city that has a big university in it. That all points to Tallahassee or Gainesville. Yes there is UNF at Jacksonville, and USF at Tampa but these are commuter schools in cities that almost don't know they are there. I would be looking for a place where education occupies a substantial component of the civic culture, where daily life activities are impacted by educational institutions and spinoff activities. Look at access to quality libraries. Not just marqee facilities that may be difficult to get to but how good are the accessible neighborhood facilities? Are there numerous and accessible museums, performing theatres, civic choral and instrumental music outlets, galleries, children's museums, bottanical gardens, nature walks, sidewalk arts, zoos, and other educational outlets? You can dump your kid into an elite school and that may be fine, but in my opinion the wider community has a huge impact on interests development. Community venues should by their very nature encourage your kids to be creative, educated, and successful.

[watsont3]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

This forum is excellent in revealing both sides of many issues in Florida. Sometimes it may appear to be a criticism of a personal opinion, but if approached with an open mind, much may be learned. I don't know about you, but I would want to know if I am being mislead or deceived (even if it makes me feel better). This Newsweek research is bogus to all schools... more students taking advanced placement tests have nothing to do with school quality. Criticism was not directed at Florida schools. It was directed at a magazine that attempts to deceive.

My comment was directed to those who make blanket statements such as "Yet the majority of the schools are still awful".
It does not address the validity of the article, it does not give any reason for the statement and it was definitely criticism aimed at Florida schools. It does not seem that poster has an open mind in regard to Florida schools.
There are good and bad schools in every state in the union. The solution is for the education community, our elected leaders and, most importantly, the community as a whole to take positve actions to improve the quality of the schools.