Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Next: the self-serve and self-checkout stuff. Someone has to make those things. They don't just show up ready to use. Someone has to write and print the manuals. Someone has to be available for trouble-shooting, repair and maintenance and software updates. Surprisingly, said no one ever, those someones are all employees. Who get hired. To do things. And get paid.
Yes they get paid more than minimum wage. But here's a fun thing about those self-serve aisles at the supermarket. There is always at least one dedicated front end person, whose primary job is to assist all those customers whose coupons aren't fitting in the coupon slot, or who rang up an item that's costing more than it cost on the shelf, or whose credit card isn't working, or whose $10 bill is being rejected by the cash-in slot. That person will be getting at least $10/hour now, instead of at least $8.56. Well not now - in September. Almost a year from now.
That was such a "duh, why didn't I think of this?" comment. Bravo! And like I said before, the machines are in part a response to increased labor costs, but it's also about keeping up with the competition who is adopting whatever technologies it can to stay convenient. I'll repeat it again since no one replied earlier. Should McDonald's just sit there and let Wawa have all of the fun with kiosks? Can Publix stand its ground on not having self-checkout in the name of "customer service" when Walmart and Target have trained the country that it's fine? (No. They caved. We argued about that on City-Data.) Is Starbucks going to be the only store allowing you to mobile order in advance? Is McDonald's going to sit there and let the locals eat up all the business on the 3rd party delivery apps? It's more than just labor. It's about keeping up with the latest trends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfenn006
The market is only effective at setting wages in a natural environment, Florida is far form natural. Wealth outside thes state drives up the price of housing, insurances, and cost of living. Floridians cannot compete. Then add to the fact that the state does little to saturate the market with skilled labor, opting to promote low skilled service jobs. Now you have workers living in poverty, relying on public assistance, resorting to foregoing necessities or crime out of desperation to survive. It ends up costing everyone more in the end doing nothing.
Is going $8.75 to $15 an hour the answer, probably not but the business owners and elected officials crying about it are mostly the biggest offenders. They had multiple oppprtunities to do the right thing, now they have to live with the sweeping consequences of a Union Style of Labor movement.
Yes. There are more and more articles about people moving to Florida and other cheaper states due to the growing acceptance of remote work that COVID caused. When reluctant companies were forced to offer it, some realized it wasn't so bad.
Now, you might have to compete with some transplant making $20K more for the same job with a bigger downpayment due to home equity for the same $250K house. Facebook floated the idea of adjusting incomes for those who move out of the SF Bay area. I wonder if others will do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative
KEY QUESTION NOT YET DISCUSSED: Is Florida's new minimum wage requirement adjusted annually for inflation?
I thought that there was something there about adjustments being considered based on economic factors. I would have preferred minimum wage increases to be a legislative thing anyway, but we know what wasn't going to happen in Florida any time soon under this 22 year same-party rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun
I didn’t support the $15 minimum wage movement here in Seattle, but the majority of the people did. As stated already, it affected the small business owners the most, leading to many either shutting down or moving. A small example, several Subway sandwich shops, which were independently owned franchises, closed their doors.
This wasn’t only Subway, but numerous other businesses that weren’t turning huge profits from the get-go. Btw, Subway sandwiches suck anyway.... IMHO.
While I can't comment on Seattle, Subway closing stores was a national story. They are overly saturated. I was shocked when I saw a list saying they were the restaurant chain with the most locations.
That was such a "duh, why didn't I think of this?" comment. Bravo! And like I said before, the machines are in part a response to increased labor costs, but it's also about keeping up with the competition who is adopting whatever technologies it can to stay convenient. I'll repeat it again since no one replied earlier. Should McDonald's just sit there and let Wawa have all of the fun with kiosks? Can Publix stand its ground on not having self-checkout in the name of "customer service" when Walmart and Target have trained the country that it's fine? (No. They caved. We argued about that on City-Data.) Is Starbucks going to be the only store allowing you to mobile order in advance? Is McDonald's going to sit there and let the locals eat up all the business on the 3rd party delivery apps? It's more than just labor. It's about keeping up with the latest trends.
Yes. There are more and more articles about people moving to Florida and other cheaper states due to the growing acceptance of remote work that COVID caused. When reluctant companies were forced to offer it, some realized it wasn't so bad.
Now, you might have to compete with some transplant making $20K more for the same job with a bigger downpayment due to home equity for the same $250K house. Facebook floated the idea of adjusting incomes for those who move out of the SF Bay area. I wonder if others will do the same.
I thought that there was something there about adjustments being considered based on economic factors. I would have preferred minimum wage increases to be a legislative thing anyway, but we know what wasn't going to happen in Florida any time soon under this 22 year same-party rule.
While I can't comment on Seattle, Subway closing stores was a national story. They are overly saturated. I was shocked when I saw a list saying they were the restaurant chain with the most locations.
True, to expand on your response to my comment. Remote/Virtural competition aside, people coming down from other states have a far greater financial headstart than natives, that translates into much higher housing down payments so they can secure housing and rates easier then can afford to live on the lower wages in the states. This affects prices, then rent without a balancing component for locals workers. Then there are retirees who come down, and affect housing even further.
Historical economics in any model will eventually show balancing in one form or another. Natural supply and demand behavior in the market which doesnt exist in Florida, legislation which we see here, or organization or labor movements which one could argue the 15 is a part of...I would maintain it's something different though the state isnt prepared for.
Letting the market set the wages failed. Minimum wage earners ended up on welfare and supported by the taxpayers. Employers got away with shorting employees to the point where it's the norm while not accepting any responsibility of the burden to the state.
Political grandstanding and posturing convinced so many that minimum wage earners dont deserve the basic necessities in life while trying to scrap away their welfare at every opportunity.
If you are a business owner and cant afford to pay your staff a living wage you are a failing business and will be shut down soon anyway. This new wage law is a response to these failings by firms and government .
Can't rep you again but I would.
I would also add one "issue" that is -not- the responsibility of a failing business's owner, and that is the impact the Pandemic has had on ALL businesses in this country. Some (like companies that have the resources to manage a thriving online business) have done better than ever. While some (like Joe Smith's Bait and Taco Stand) have had to close its doors. It's not that Joe was a bad business owner. It's that he had to close down. But rather, his bank didn't really care why Joe couldn't pay the mortgage two months after closing during the lockdowns, and he had to cut bait, and tacos <puns intended>.
I would also add one "issue" that is -not- the responsibility of a failing business's owner, and that is the impact the Pandemic has had on ALL businesses in this country. Some (like companies that have the resources to manage a thriving online business) have done better than ever. While some (like Joe Smith's Bait and Taco Stand) have had to close its doors. It's not that Joe was a bad business owner. It's that he had to close down. But rather, his bank didn't really care why Joe couldn't pay the mortgage two months after closing during the lockdowns, and he had to cut bait, and tacos <puns intended>.
You make valid points, and it’s why I come here time and time again to engage in conversation, whether or not we agree on the surface.
I am just of the opinion that this is not the correct solution to the low wage problem. There are deeper issues at hand in Florida.
You make valid points, and it’s why I come here time and time again to engage in conversation, whether or not we agree on the surface.
I am just of the opinion that this is not the correct solution to the low wage problem. There are deeper issues at hand in Florida.
It isn't a solution. It is a single tool toward a very complex situation. It is one step closer to civilization ceasing to treat lower wage workers as "inferiors."
As I see it - SOMEONE has to flip those burgers. I want to buy a burger, I don't want to make one. Whether I want the $8 burger at Five Guys, or the $1.29 burger at Wendy's, someone has to make it. I'm grateful that it's not me. I am happy to fork over my money so that someone other than me, can make that burger on my behalf. The only reason I can't afford to buy a burger at 5 Guys every couple of weeks is because *I* am a minimum wage worker. I'd LOVE to support that other minimum wage worker, I'd love to see him earn his way to management, knowing that I contributed to his good fortune and increased skills. That is what capitalism is all about afterall, and I am, if nothing else, a die-hard capitalist.
I believe in earning, and I believe in spending. But my belief is in tangible things, not esoteric concepts such as the stock market. I also have stocks, but they don't even amount to my yearly property tax bill. They're just a little something socked away so that when I'm old, I can take a trip back north for a decent pizza before I die.
Those are things I believe in. Earning (not making, but actually earning) money, and spending money. You can't spend what you don't have, and you can't earn what no one is willing to give you.
For that reason alone, I believe an increased minimum wage in Florida is necessary. I'm not convinced that it needed to increase to $15/hour by 2026. But $10 starting in September is an excellent beginning.
When government articially distorts free markets, in a free market economy, there are almost always negative effects, known, and unknown.
I could cite many examples...here's 1: Obamacare mandated that if a employee worked 30+ hours, the employer would have to provide them health insurance. So, employers reduced hours, & hired more part-time workers...exactly what we don't need...more part-time jobs.
The idea is to minimize those distortions, to avoid ruining the marketplace...like we've done to healthcare, & higher education. The costs of healthcare & higher education, are both outpacing inflation by wide margins, proving that gov't intervention has caused price bubbles.
Rather than the minimum wage hike, I'd like to see gov't incentives to employers to limit the % of part-time umployees to full-time, done County-by-County, & industry by industry.
I'd also like to see some gov't incentives to give part-time workers the same schedule week after week, so they can pursure other part-time jobs. Employers change part-timers' schedules all the time, it's tough to hold 2 or 3 part-time jobs, at the same time.
Bad gov't regulation is pushing workers into the gig economy too, which has unintended consequences as well.
We have way too much gov't distortion of "free" markets, (mostly done for payola) and its killing it. Regulations are restraint of trade that favor one group over another, which is another way to say "pay-to-play".
This is widening the wage gaps, and wealth gaps. The rich keep getting richer, because they are paying politicians off to restrain trade against the 99% who are striving to compete with the top 1%.
Not really... It's the same reason why a salary for the same job in SF is going to pay more than in Central FL -- cost of everything is significantly higher in SF, and so wages get adjusted based on CoL.
Can't expect the same pay to work a job in rural North FL as you would in a huge metropolis such as Miami. There are pros and cons to living in the big city. Pros are higher wages, and the amenities that come with big city life. Cons are higher costs of everything, which include business operations, due to higher expected wages, among other things.
You're comparing a base level job to a career position, apples and oranges. This isn't about professional level salaries, rather the start point for anyone working at all. The premise that 28K is too much for someone working full time (if they're lucky), whether in Perry FL or wherever is a tad ridiculous. Furthermore very few even get full-time hours since employers (big and small) are too tight to pay half the health insurance benefits required for full time workers, or give a damn for that matter.
When government articially distorts free markets, in a free market economy, there are almost always negative effects, known, and unknown.
I could cite many examples...here's 1: Obamacare mandated that if a employee worked 30+ hours, the employer would have to provide them health insurance. So, employers reduced hours, & hired more part-time workers...exactly what we don't need...more part-time jobs.
The idea is to minimize those distortions, to avoid ruining the marketplace...like we've done to healthcare, & higher education. The costs of healthcare & higher education, are both outpacing inflation by wide margins, proving that gov't intervention has caused price bubbles.
Rather than the minimum wage hike, I'd like to see gov't incentives to employers to limit the % of part-time umployees to full-time, done County-by-County, & industry by industry.
I'd also like to see some gov't incentives to give part-time workers the same schedule week after week, so they can pursure other part-time jobs. Employers change part-timers' schedules all the time, it's tough to hold 2 or 3 part-time jobs, at the same time.
Bad gov't regulation is pushing workers into the gig economy too, which has unintended consequences as well.
We have way too much gov't distortion of "free" markets, (mostly done for payola) and its killing it. Regulations are restraint of trade that favor one group over another, which is another way to say "pay-to-play".
This is widening the wage gaps, and wealth gaps. The rich keep getting richer, because they are paying politicians off to restrain trade against the 99% who are striving to compete with the top 1%.
Your rant on the ACA isn't true. If you work more than 30 hours a week, your company has to have an option for you to get group insurance. They don't have to pay 100% of the premiums. They also don't have to have a GOOD plan, they just have to have A plan. It can be an 80/20 with a $10,000 out of pocket before the plan even kicks in, but it has to be something. And it has to cover the basics: annual checkup, annual pap smear, prostate exam, etc. If you want anything more comprehensive the employer can make you kick in for the extra.
You're comparing a base level job to a career position, apples and oranges. This isn't about professional level salaries, rather the start point for anyone working at all. The premise that 28K is too much for someone working full time (if they're lucky), whether in Perry FL or wherever is a tad ridiculous. Furthermore very few even get full-time hours since employers (big and small) are too tight to pay half the health insurance benefits required for full time workers, or give a damn for that matter.
I’ll agree to disagree.
In no way do I think every job is worth $28k/yr.
I’ll agree to disagree.
In no way do I think every job is worth $28k/yr.
You're disagreeing on completely different things, as the poster pointed out. Not all jobs are full-time jobs, and in fact MOST minimum-wage jobs are NOT full time. A person working 40 hours a week for minimum wage is probably working more than one part time job. That means he is getting NO benefits at all. That means he has to pay out of pocket for ALL his benefits. And, if he takes a day off because he's sick, in Florida, his employers do NOT have to give him paid sick time. So he'd be out a day's pay, for the privilege of being sick.
Minimum wage earners are typically part time earners. People who are not in a position to find a career, who haven't had the opportunity to attend a trade school AND find a full-time job paying benefits in that trade, have slim pickins. They can't save what they aren't earning. They can't sock away every extra dime they have so that some day when they're 62, they can retire and live a good life. They can't do that if they don't HAVE an extra dime after the bills are paid.
There are people like that all over the country. Millions of them. If you choose not to notice them, or you choose to claim they only have to work harder - then you need to get your head out of the ground.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
