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I have to ask who takes the military entrance exam? Does this represent a cross section of the population? Or has the college bound crowd been skimmed from the top already?
In my school, 93% of students claim they are headed for a 4 year university and only 2% claim they are headed for the military. Where that 2% fits in the continuium could make a world of difference. I'd be willing to bet that 2% is more likely to include our bottom students than our top.
Not to put down the military but, my experience has been that it's students who don't have other choices who choose the military. Maybe because they can get college money or they just don't have anything else. If that is the case, it should not be surprising that 1 in 4 don't pass the exam to get in. That 3 out of 4 do should be.
I dropped out of college after september 11th to join the military. I come from an upper middle class family and had many other options. Some choose to serve because of their sense of duty to their nation and patriotism.
Notherners tend to join the military when there is no other option. Southerners tend to join the military because of patriotism. This is the trend that I noticed during my two enlistments from 2002-2009. I am originally from NY, and most people serving from the north came from nothing and had no options. I served with many enlisted people with college degrees (to include masters degrees) from great universities and from upper middle class homes, but they were all from the south.
Some schools make students take the ASVAB. Mine did not. I have heard that it is not uncommon for kids in bad areas to take the ASVAB in HS. I took when I made my decision to join in my first year of college. This may in due to the fact that college is not viable option for (example) inner city children. These are going to be children with worse educations, raised in environments that do not generally produce or promote success. If these numbers are coming from schools like this, then the tests are skewed. These tests need to come SOLELY from candidates that wish to enlist, or ALL children in school.
You cant take a sample of ONLY people eating in fast food resturants and draw the conclusion that All Americans are unhealthy. That is possibly what this study has done.
I dropped out of college after september 11th to join the military. I come from an upper middle class family and had many other options. Some choose to serve because of their sense of duty to their nation and patriotism.
Notherners tend to join the military when there is no other option. Southerners tend to join the military because of patriotism. This is the trend that I noticed during my two enlistments from 2002-2009. I am originally from NY, and most people serving from the north came from nothing and had no options. I served with many enlisted people with college degrees (to include masters degrees) from great universities and from upper middle class homes, but they were all from the south.
Some schools make students take the ASVAB. Mine did not. I have heard that it is not uncommon for kids in bad areas to take the ASVAB in HS. I took when I made my decision to join in my first year of college. This may in due to the fact that college is not viable option for (example) inner city children. These are going to be children with worse educations, raised in environments that do not generally produce or promote success. If these numbers are coming from schools like this, then the tests are skewed. These tests need to come SOLELY from candidates that wish to enlist, or ALL children in school.
You cant take a sample of ONLY people eating in fast food resturants and draw the conclusion that All Americans are unhealthy. That is possibly what this study has done.
My point wasn't that all who join the military do so because of having limited options but that some do. I just don't think you're looking at a cross section of the population when you look at those taking the entrance exams. So, one out of four failing may not be as bad as it looks. Perhaps we should just be glad that one in four failed and are not in the military defending our country as a result.
Thanks for the insight no north/south. I'm in the north and I do see people going into the military when they have no other options moreso than out of a sense of patriotism.
My point wasn't that all who join the military do so because of having limited options but that some do. I just don't think you're looking at a cross section of the population when you look at those taking the entrance exams. So, one out of four failing may not be as bad as it looks. Perhaps we should just be glad that one in four failed and are not in the military defending our country as a result.
Thanks for the insight no north/south. I'm in the north and I do see people going into the military when they have no other options moreso than out of a sense of patriotism.
And thank you for defending our country.
I am greatful for your appreciation. I am very proud of my service and my country (not saying it is perfect )
I may not have clearly outlined what I was trying to convey in my previous post. I grew up in suburbia, on Long Island, in a good school. We did not take the ASVAB. I know kids who grew up in innner city schools, they did. I am sure that if my graduating class took the ASVAB, most of us, if not all, would pass. The inner city kids, suffering from poor, underfunded education, coupled with the stresses of a poverty stricken childhood, are going to be less likely to pass, but those are the kids forced to take the exam in school.
The study itself might not be flawed, but the sample they used most definately is, I for one, knowing how the ASVAB works and who usually takes it, cant see how the sample is not flawed. Unless they AT RANDOM chose different kids from different school districts to take the exam instead of just taking numbers on the books from inner city kids forced into taking the test, which I presume is the majority of people who take it.
Also, if you look at the map in the article, you can see that different states had different percentages pass the exam as well. Mississippi had between 36& and 40% fail. Idaho had between 10% and 15% fail.
I am surprised Wisconsin score that low...I didn't expect to see that.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
Also, if you look at the map in the article, you can see that different states had different percentages pass the exam as well. Mississippi had between 36& and 40% fail. Idaho had between 10% and 15% fail.
One thing about the ASVAB is that it does somewhat stress mechanical stuff-electronics, gearing, engines, stuff like that. Those are subjects that have been slowly taken out of the curriculum of many school systems (except for that relatively small sub-group of kids that go to Vo-Tech, and even that is becoming heavy on computer related specialties) in the push to convince parents that all children can and should go to college.
One thing about the ASVAB is that it does somewhat stress mechanical stuff-electronics, gearing, engines, stuff like that. Those are subjects that have been slowly taken out of the curriculum of many school systems (except for that relatively small sub-group of kids that go to Vo-Tech, and even that is becoming heavy on computer related specialties) in the push to convince parents that all children can and should go to college.
Good point. Also, today's military is also quite a bit different than that of even recent years past.
A lot more is expected of the military now - especially when it comes to computer technology (which is being used more now for pretty much everything).
"Assembling Objects" is new as of 2002. Other categories have included:
"Coding Speed" (CS) which was Morse Code.
"Numerical Operations" (NO)
"Space Perception" (SP)
"Tool Knowledge" (TK)
"General Information" (GI)
"Attention to Detail" (AD)
Standards for Enlistment
AFQT required minimum scores as of January 2009 (unless otherwise noted) are as follows:
Air Force (AFQT) 55 recently changed from 50 (GED Graduate is 65)
Air National Guard (AFQT) 31 (GED Graduate is 50)
Coast Guard (AFQT) 45 (GED is 46)
Navy (AFQT) 50 (GED is 50)
Marines (AFQT) 31
Army (AFQT) 31
GED holders who earn 15 college credits 100 level or greater are considered equivalent with those holding high school diplomas. This would result in only needing the minimum score to enlist.
Armed Forces Qualification Test
An Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT) score is used to determine basic qualification for enlistment.
AFQT Scores are divided into the following categories:
Category I - 93-99
Category II - 65-92
Category III A - 50-64
Category III B - 31-49
Category IV A - 21-30
Category IV B - 16-20
Category IV C - 10-15
Category V - 0-9
The formula for computing an AFQT score is: AR + MK + (2 x VE) where VE = PC + WK.
The VE (verbal) score is determined by adding the raw scores from the PC and WK tests (i.e., how many questions the aspiring recruit got right on each) and using a table to get the VE score from that combined PC and WK raw score.
AFQT scores are not raw scores, but rather percentile scores indicating how each examinee performed compared with all other examinees. Thus, someone who receives an AFQT of 55 scored better than 55 percent of all other examinees. Maximum possible score is 99 as a person can do better than 99 percent of those who took the test, but he cannot do better than himself, so the high percentile is 99.
Law prohibits applicants in Category V from enlisting[citation needed]. In addition, there are constraints placed on Category IV recruits. Presently, all Category IV recruits must be high school diploma graduates. Further, the law constrains the percentage of accessions who can fall in Category IV (currently, the limit is 20%).
Composite scores
In addition to the ASVAB's AFQT, each branch has Military Occupational Specialty, or MOS, specific scores. Combinations of scores from the nine tests are used to determine qualification for a MOS. These combinations are called "aptitude area scores," "composite scores," or "line scores." Each of the five armed services has its own aptitude area scores and sets its own minimum composite scores for each MOS.
Army/Nat. Guard Composite Scores:
CL — Clerical — VE+AR+MK
CO — Combat Operations — AR+CS+AS+MC
EL — Electronics — GS+AR+MK+EI
FA — Field Artillery — AR+CS+MK+MC
GM — General Maintenance — GS+AS+MK+EI
GT — General Technical — VE+AR
MM — Mechanical Maintenance — NO+AS+MC+EI
OF — Operators and Food — VE+NO+AS+MC
SC — Surveillance and Communications — VE+AR+AS+MC
ST — Skilled Technical — GS+VE+MK+MC
SF - Special Forces - GT+CO
Navy/Coast Guard Line Scores:
GT - General Technical - AR+VE
EL - Electronics - AR+EI+GS+MK
BEE - Basic Electricity and Electronics - AR+GS+2*MK
ENG - Engineering - AI+SI+MK
MEC - Mechanical Maintenance - AR+AI+SI+MC
MEC2 - Mechanical Maintenance 2 - AO+AR+MC
NUC - Nuclear Field - AR+MC+MK+VE
OPS - Operations Specialist - WK, PC, AR, MK, AO
HM - Hospitalcorpsman - GS+MK+VE
ADM - Administrative - MK+VE
SEALs - GS+MC+EI=165 or VE+MK+MC+CS=220 (minimum for BUD/S)
Air Force Composite Scores:[1]
Goes by Standard AFQT score AR + MK + (2 x VE)
G - General: Verbal Expression (WK plus PC) and Arithmetic Reasoning (AR)
M - Mechanical: Mechanical Comprehension (MC), General Science (GS) and 2 times Auto & Shop Information (AS)
A - Administrative: Numerical Operations * (NO), Coding Speed * (CS), and Verbal Expression (WK plus PC)
E - Electrical: Arithmetic Reasoning (AR), Mathematics Knowledge (MK), Electronics Information (EI), and General Science (GS)
My stepson took the ASVAB 6 times trying to get into the military. Out of 6 tries his highest score was an 18. Still not high enough to even qualify for any branch of service. The Army was kind enough to accept him as a target holder and sent him to Afghanistan. After 2 months he claimed stress problems and they sent him home with so called medical issues. He will most likely get a full medical retirement because he had hives from stress. He is a total dumbass when it comes to common sense. But it makes you wonder who is the stupid one?
I almost had to laugh when I read this story. It's so pathetic. The genuises who have dummied down our education are soooooooo short sighted.
I bet they never even thought about or consulted with the department of defense when they decided to dummy everything down. I wonder if these kids even know how to spell A-R-M-Y.
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