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Old 02-13-2008, 01:24 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,775,774 times
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I doubt the Caudillo could make such a move even if wanted. As I understand it, oil is a global commodity and that which is drilled all goes into the same "big pool" and then is sold. Consequently, while we do not do any oil business with Iran, its not as if Iranian oil does not make it here. So it would be with Venezuelan oil.

I doubt there is much in the way of a dedicated supply line directly from Venezuela to the US. Close geography maybe, nothing more. But, for the sake of argument, let's assume there is and the Caudillo is correct. Would not such and embargo completely destroy his so-called revolution? All countries need oil and the ones that export it need to sell it.

I suppose he could refuse to sell to any American company. Big deal. There are dozens of other players that would snap it up and sell it to us at a slight premium. I think we'd survive.

I guess I will never understand this preoccupation with Chavez on both the Right and the Left. He just another goon stutting around in a uniform, albeit a bit more amusing one. He is neither the savior of the poor nor the destoyer of the West. He is actually quite irrelevant. We really do not have much in the way of a dispute with the guy and should just ignore him. But he obviously inspires a lot of people. I just do not see it.
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:26 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,545,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
And I guess you do not drive a car, travel on planes, or consume petroleum in any way. Obviously you do not condone forced sales through eminent domain so why would you give Chavez a pass in trying to steal hundreds of millions from US citizens?
Going for "steepest gradient descent" on the oil consumption. Thanks for asking. Started tracking about a year ago. Dropped vehcile miles from over 30,000 to under 5,000. Going to see how much further we can drop it this year. Fun part is the next project through the shop will be a fully electric (not a hybrid) car.

Airline miles near zero. Only trip this last year (you will get a hoot out of this) was to Denver to look at working on the design for the Alberta Tar Sands project. Had to No Go that one. But might have another coming up for a Solar Thermal project in California, shortly.

Overall we are to the point where oil use is so endemic in our culture that even the Amsih cannot avoid getting in their chain of existence from the waste it generates in the air, water and ground along with the secondary waste streams such as plastic.

Thing with petrol overall is that we (the US) still produce 40% or so what we consume, and if we all did some very real (and not even painful) cutback and power-down it would not be a problem. This is like an obesity thing. The food (or oil) is much less the problem than the gluttony.

The thought that hundreds of millions of dollars are being stolen from US citizens by Chavez is so laughable it is just pathetic. I suppose you are counting Exxon and its top scumbags as the poor victims? These scum have not even paid their damages from the Exxon Valdez. THAT is stealing Billions from US. If Chavez finds a way to stick it to them, good for Chavez.
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Old 02-13-2008, 02:06 PM
 
Location: WA
5,641 posts, read 24,953,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
...
The thought that hundreds of millions of dollars are being stolen from US citizens by Chavez is so laughable it is just pathetic. I suppose you are counting Exxon and its top scumbags as the poor victims?
...
Exxon is owned by millions of Americans. Of the 5+ billion shares less than 1% are held by insiders. Shares are held by many retirement funds, mutual funds, and are part of many indexes so it is one of the most widely help companies in the country. Chavez stole from us.
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Old 02-13-2008, 02:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
Exxon is owned by millions of Americans. Of the 5+ billion shares less than 1% are held by insiders. Shares are held by many retirement funds, mutual funds, and are part of many indexes so it is one of the most widely help companies in the country. Chavez stole from us.
So who is refusing to pay the Billions in damages from the Exxon Valdez?

Millions of Americans?

Or just one crooked corporation?
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Old 02-13-2008, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,861,717 times
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Notice how the price of crude takes a little jump everytime someone says that their thinking about cutting us off?

Or when speed boats mess around in the neck of the Persian Gulf.

Chavez spent to much on Christmas and needs to pay his bills, thats all.

Besides we would take over his country with our own puppet if he messes.

freedom
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Old 02-13-2008, 03:00 PM
 
Location: WA
5,641 posts, read 24,953,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
So who is refusing to pay the Billions in damages from the Exxon Valdez?

Millions of Americans?

Or just one crooked corporation?
Exxon paid billions in clean-up, actual damages, and compensatory damages. It is currently appealing the punitive damages as excessive. Yes, millions of Americans are the owners of the corporation that is going through the litigation over these additional claims which are driven in large part by attorneys that are looking for a large cut. Ever hear of tort reform?
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Tampa
3,982 posts, read 10,461,528 times
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The World's Fastest Electric Car - Forbes.com

see, if we can take this technology and make it affordable, we would need much less oil!

and 300 miles per charge, id only need to charge it weekly!
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:50 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,545,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalblue View Post
The World's Fastest Electric Car - Forbes.com

see, if we can take this technology and make it affordable, we would need much less oil!

and 300 miles per charge, id only need to charge it weekly!
Dunno about mo' bedder batteries.

Makes more sense to me to use NO batteries -- or very small ones and pick the power up from the roadway. The power grid goes most everywhere most everyone drives.

As far as this little racer . . . They should probably sponsor a car race with these and whomp the snot out the typical NAStyCARs types in a public setting to gain some popular with the motorheads of America.
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:02 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,545,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
Exxon paid billions in clean-up, actual damages, and compensatory damages. It is currently appealing the punitive damages as excessive. Yes, millions of Americans are the owners of the corporation that is going through the litigation over these additional claims which are driven in large part by attorneys that are looking for a large cut. Ever hear of tort reform?
Oh, the poor darlings!

But it looks like at this point Exxon's lawyers are the slimeballs.

Suppose some folks who say, "If you cannot do the time, don't do the crime." Need to add "If you will not pay the bill don't do the spill."

Now Exxon has something like $30 Billion in the bank and still will not pay.

The real history (of non-payment):

Exxon Valdez oil spill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
In 1994, in the case of Baker vs. Exxon, an Anchorage jury awarded $287 million for actual damages and $5 billion for punitive damages. The punitive damages amount was equal to a single year's profit by Exxon at that time.

Exxon appealed the ruling and the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ordered the original judge, Russel Holland, to reduce the punitive damages. On December 6, 2002, the judge announced that he had reduced the damages to $4 billion, which he concluded was justified by the facts of the case and was not grossly excessive.

Exxon appealed again, sending the case back to court to be considered in regard to a recent Supreme Court ruling in a similar case, which caused Judge Holland to increase the punitive damages to $4.5 billion, plus interest.

After more appeals, and oral arguments heard by the 9th Circuit Appellate Court on 27 January, 2006, the damages award was cut to $2.5 billion on 22 December, 2006.[21] The court cited recent U.S. Supreme Court rulings relative to limits on punitive damages.

Exxon appealed again. On 23 May, 2007, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denied Exxon Mobil Corp.'s request for another hearing, letting stand its ruling that Exxon owes $2.5 billion in punitive damages. Exxon then appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, which on 29 October, 2007 has agreed to decide whether Exxon Mobil Corp. should pay the $2.5 billion in punitive damages. The case will likely be heard in the spring of 2008. Justice Samuel Alito, who owns between $100,000 and $250,000 in Exxon stock, recused himself from the case [22].

Exxon's official position is that punitive damages greater than $25 million are not justified because the spill resulted from an accident, and because Exxon spent an estimated $2 billion cleaning up the spill, along with a further $1 billion to settle civil and criminal charges related to the case. Attorneys for the plaintiffs contended that Exxon bore responsibility for the accident because the company "put a drunk in charge of a tanker in Prince William Sound."[23]

Exxon recovered a significant portion of clean-up and legal expenses through insurance claims[24] and tax deductions for the loss of the Valdez.[25] Also, in 1991, Exxon made a separate financial settlement with a group of seafood producers known as the Seattle Seven for the disaster's effect on the Alaskan seafood industry. The agreement granted $63.75 million to the Seattle Seven but stipulated that the seafood companies would have to repay almost all of any punitive damages to Exxon.[26]

"America's largest oil company soon faced suits from the federal government and from native tribal and fishing communities. In 1994 a federal district court jury ordered Exxon to pay $5 billion in punitive damages to 30,000 natives, fishermen, and businesses suffering economic hardship because of the spill. To date, Exxon hasn't turned over a penny in satisfaction of that judgment. In fact, the company is earning $400 million a year in interest on the money reserved in case it's ultimately compelled to pay up. Lee Raymond, Exxon's CEO, has said that the jury award was an "excessive and unwarranted judgment." Exxon has instigated appeals and other legal maneuvers to squash it. Among other tactics Exxon has claimed that a court bailiff tried to influence a juror by showing him a bullet and his gun while saying that a juror who was holding out for Exxon should be "put out of her misery." The bailiff, Donald Warwick, died in 1995. Two years ago, the federal judge, H. Russel Holland, found the allegations groundless."[27]
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:01 PM
 
Location: WA
5,641 posts, read 24,953,484 times
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Not much to argue... Exxon had a serious accident and paid for clean-up, actual damages, compensatory damages, and fines for charged criminal behavior of their employees. There are some that want to extort more money even though it will not reduce the possibility of future accidents or reverse the consequences of what happened. You can call the corporation names but it is simply looking for a settlement in the courts of what it considers unjustified rulings.
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