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I have a border collie, thought he was an aussie shepherd, but found out the other day when he sank low to the ground like stalking prey that this is a trait of the Border Collies. Anyway, he is 3 and has had very little socialization. I have been taking him to the dog park to see dogs, but only once or twice inside the fence. Then another woman invited him in to play with her dog. He was tail up smelling close up to the dog and I felt it was agressive, but she said he was fine. There was a moment when the other dog felt threatened and my dog attacked and he attacked back, then it ended.
Then I went there a second time and we were outside the fences with leashes on and they danced about a bit, then a bunch of dogs inside the fence started barking and getting excited, and suddenly my dog in the confusion looked around, jumped around and again attacked the other dog. I don't mean that he growled at him and tried to tear him up but I think he tried to dominiate by jumping on him and the other dog reacted and barked him down. When it was over things returned to normal smelling and such and then my dog decided to fun over to the fence where the big dogs were and three of them ran up to meet him and some barking and growling happened and next thing I see my dogs tail went from up high to lower and lower until it was almost between his legs, he moved back over near me.
I think what happened was that the other dogs put him in his place. I think he is aggressively running up to strange dogs and not taking time to meet with them and get agreement, I think it's because he doesn't know about boundaries of other dogs.The other thing I saw is that my dog seems to want to run up to small dogs and pounce on them and hold them down. He is not vicious, just trying to get onto them.
Can anyone enlighten me on what is going on. Is my dog aggressive or just doesn't understand yet?
Keep him leashed and correct his aggression before it manifests
He is trying to dominate other dogs and he can sense that it is easier to do it with smaller dogs. I would say, keep taking him to dog parks, keep him on leash so he can observe. When other dogs approach him, hold him so that they can sniff him, but only let him sniff them if he is behaving. He will appreciate you being in charge, then he will not have to feel like he has to assert himself because his pack leader has things under control.
Frequent, firm corrections whenever he starts to get aggressive.
Let other owners know that he is not socialized and try to only allow other non-aggressive dogs near him. Also try to get him around females, and he may not be so aggressive. Ideally, dominant females would keep him in his place, but not elicit immediate feelings of aggression on his part.
Don't give up, you sound like you can read his behavior well, be firm, cool and stay in control. Over time, he should improve.
Good luck!
NO..... do NOT keep your dog leashed in the presence of multiple dogs that are off-leash ..... dogs in that situation feel way vulnerable and are more likely to react aggressively.......
how long have you had your dog?? i had to walk my dave PAST the dog park for over 2 weeks before i took him in ...... he was able to see the other dogs on the other side of the fence, but the fact that there was a fence between him and the other dogs made him feel a little safer..... he loves the dog park now, but can still be overwhelmed when there are too many dogs...... if we are at the small park, we just leave..... bailey is bored anyway..... if we are at the big dog park, we go to another area that is not so densely populated.......
you have to learn your dog's body language and what he is saying with each expression and stance...... a GREAT book for help with this is "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell ......
NO..... do NOT keep your dog leashed in the presence of multiple dogs that are off-leash ..... dogs in that situation feel way vulnerable and are more likely to react aggressively.......
how long have you had your dog?? i had to walk my dave PAST the dog park for over 2 weeks before i took him in ...... he was able to see the other dogs on the other side of the fence, but the fact that there was a fence between him and the other dogs made him feel a little safer..... he loves the dog park now, but can still be overwhelmed when there are too many dogs...... if we are at the small park, we just leave..... bailey is bored anyway..... if we are at the big dog park, we go to another area that is not so densely populated.......
you have to learn your dog's body language and what he is saying with each expression and stance...... a GREAT book for help with this is "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell ......
good post, and i agree 100%...
i made the mistake of keeping my dog on a leash the first time i ever visited a dog park...
of course, a pack of park dogs ran up to him and being on the leash, he had no escape route, felt threatened, and lashed out.
immediately one of the dog owners came to me, and advised me that my dog would feel much more comfortable off leash inside the fenced area, and for me to give it a try...
i let him loose, and sure enough, the park dogs came up once more, but my dog reacted timidly at first, but within a few seconds, it was an all out game of chase! they took turns chasing each other the whole freaking time!
i also spent much time prior to that "casing" the dog park, waking my dog leashed along the fence line on the outside....
depending on how big your dog is, should dictate whether he should be in the small dog or big dog park...but once you get a good feel on how your dog reacts, you may try the larger dog park.
you have to learn your dog's body language and what he is saying with each expression and stance...... a GREAT book for help with this is "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell ......
good post all around but i wanted to reiterate this last part - you HAVE to learn canine body language. until you do, it's hard for us to even understand what you're saying about what your dog is doing, because the body language and actions you describe may be aggression or they may be play, and i'm not saying this to be mean but you clearly aren't sure which is which. people who let their dogs interact with unfamiliar dogs HAVE to learn the difference between the two. mistaking harmless rough play for aggression can be almost as dangerous as not recognizing real aggression in your dog.
besides the other end of the leash, which is great, o'connell has another book called "for the love of the dog", which is all about dog emotions and body language. "calming signals" by turid rugaas is another good book on the same general subject, although it focuses specifically on body language that dogs use to defuse tension. still, it's great for learning to spot when your dog is stressed, and you can mimic some of the things they do to calm them down.
Some dogs are just not meant for the dog park, that's just the way it is. Just because there is a dog park doesn't mean your dog should go. I, for one, am so sick and tired of people bringing aggressive dogs to an off-leash park with tons of dogs around because they want to socialize their dog! My dog is not going to be part of that experiment and he's been attacked more than once by these dogs. If your dog doesn't get along with other dogs and shows aggressive behavior around them, unclipping the leash is probably not the thing to do. Sorry, just a huge pet peeve of mine since in the last few weeks there have been horrific fights at my park because people wanted to socialize their aggressive dogs in a dog park setting. No common sense there!
Has anyone tried socializing their dog via daycare instead of dog parks? My dog really needs to meet other dogs - my 18 pound bulldog tried to take down a lab over 3x her size. She doesn't always respond when I call her so I'm unsure about off leash parks. I took her to an on leash park but there wasn't that many dogs. So I'm if I drop her off at a dog daycare maybe once a week, she can meet and play with alot dogs in a controlled environment.
Can anyone enlighten me on what is going on. Is my dog aggressive or just doesn't understand yet?
You're getting great advice, and I would side with the comments advising against leashing your dog at the park--that's like a red flag to some other dogs. Since your dog is 3 years old, and you're just socializing him now, it sounds as if you didn't raise him. I suggest you find a good dog obedience school nearby, for older dogs, and take a class together focusing on socialization. Do a 6 week course where your dog gets to meet other dogs in a controlled environment. That will teach him proper behavior, and it'll teach you to read the signals. Then it's back to the park, and you'll both have fun!
The behavior you describe sounds absolutely typical to me: Lots of timid instinctual behavior of fear alternating with dominance attempts. Our rescue GSD displayed similar behavior the first few times at the park until she was put in her place by the Alpha dog (and she's never forgotten!). We also did obedience shool with her. Now she's the Alpha, pretty much, and most of the time she's doing a very nice job of welcoming new dogs and teaching them how to chase her! A new timid, unsocialized adult dog showed up on a leash recently, and it was your scenario exactly. And the owner didn't know how to read his dog's signals. But we all did a socialization lesson on the spot with our fairly well-behaved dogs, the new dog came off his leash, and now, three weeks later, he's "running with the pack." Sounds like a Disney movie . Not all dog park stories are that successful, I know! But I thought I'd show you there's no need to feel disheartened!
PS While I wrote this, Lemonegg posted a message along the same lines! But I wouldn't recommend dropping your dog off at daycare--you need to be there with your dog, because it's also a training session for you.
Has anyone tried socializing their dog via daycare instead of dog parks? My dogs really needs to meet other dog - my 18 pound bulldog tried to take down a lab 3x her size. She doesn't always respond when I call her so I'm unsure about off leash parks. I took her to an on leash park but there wasn't that many dogs. So I'm if I drop her off at a dog daycare maybe once a week, she can meet and play with alot dogs in a controlled environment.
Not sure how the daycares work in your area, but before mine was allowed outside with all the dogs, he had to pass a temperament test. They pulled 4 dogs of various sizes/breeds from the outside and put them into their inside room. Then, they put my dog in there to see how he did with the dogs. Any respectable daycare will do this, since it's a huge liability to allow aggressive dogs in there.
yeah, i don't think trying to socialize a dog with aggression problems by letting them mix with unwitting, unconsenting people's dogs is a good idea. and neither is dropping them off somewhere without you and expecting them to learn - you being there is extremely important and you need to learn things too. if you suspect your dog has an aggression problem, a one on one session with a trainer is the only real option, especially if you don't know much about dog training and behavior yourself. a trainer can also tell you whether or not your dog *does* have an aggression problem, and they will probably be able to expose your dog to their well-trained and socialized dogs.
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Keep him leashed and correct his aggression before it manifests
. Not all dog park stories are that successful, I know! But I thought I'd show you there's no need to feel disheartened!
