Blacks in Livonia (Detroit, Westland, Wyoming: felony, buying a house, buying)

[Coldjensens]

Actually, Livonia is not the whitest city in the united states. It is not the whitest city in Michigan, nor the whitest city in Oakland or Wayne County. It is mostly white, but so are a lot of cities. So what?

The limited experiences of one or two people in a tiny area of a large city does not justify branding the entire city.

If you want to know what some part of Livonia is like go there. If you want to know how your daughters are likely to be treated, find some black people from the part of the city that you are considering and ask them how their children are treated. You cannot protect yur children from the ugliness of racism. Bigots are everywhere. They may be more tolerated in some places than in others. However your best bet is to teach your daughters how to deal with it and make sure that they understand that bigots are just people who are stupid and afraid and that not all people are like that and it is wrong. Frankly our children learned not to be racists by being a minority in their school and seeing how foul it is to be judged by and mistreated because of your skin color. Now they not only realize that it is wrong, they are intolerant of it despite the fact that they now attend a mostly white school.

[Adrian71]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

Actually, Livonia is not the whitest city in the united states. It is not the whitest city in Michigan, nor the whitest city in Oakland or Wayne County. It is mostly white, but so are a lot of cities. So what?

The limited experiences of one or two people in a tiny area of a large city does not justify branding the entire city.

*sigh*

I said Livonia is the whitest large city in the United States. Among U.S. cities with a population of 100,000 or more, it has the higest percentage of whites. I'm not just making this stuff up.

"Livonia has received some attention as the US city with the highest percentage of Caucasian residents among cities with 100,000 or more residents." -- Livonia, Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To answer your "so what," this is a big deal -- again, as I pointed out in my previous post -- because Livonia was created largely by white flight. It has a history of not being welcoming to minorities. And again, this is not just "the limited experiences of one or two people in a tiny area of a large city." It's funny that a 35-year resident and a person who grew up there have consistently observed these things about their city, and when they've mentioned it in the presence of friends and neighbors, nobody has ever tried to correct them. To the contrary, they tend to agree. And unfortunately, it's not just one isolated Wal-Mart incident, which I'd never even heard about until I joined this thread.

Have you lived there? Do you know anyone who has? It would be nice if things were different, but some areas are simply not friendly toward certain groups of people. That's reality. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't happen helps no one.

If you want to know what some part of Livonia is like go there. If you want to know how your daughters are likely to be treated, find some black people from the part of the city that you are considering and ask them how their children are treated.

I agree, and I said as much. I'd just prefer him to be prepared for what might happen. Like I said, if I can be proved wrong, that's fine.

[firecracker123]

This was what I was most afraid of relocating to the US period. When my husband came home to tell me of his relocation/promotion this was one of the few things on the CON side of my rationale. One of the things I love about being from Toronto is the racial diversity, and the (in general) acceptance of such. Sure we have our "pockets" where one race dominates, Little Italy, Little Potugal, China Town, communities where East Indians and West Indians prevail, etc, etc, etc....but for the most part most people don't bat an eye at different races. We do have our issues with racial profiling I am sure, and there will be some visible minorities (and I am of mixed background) that would beg to differ I am sure. But I have never felt that I was being treated poorly, given less opportunity or viewed/considered less valued because of it. Here, my husband (of English decent) can walk hand in hand in total comfort and without being outside the norm.

Anytime we have been to the states, whether in Disney World, or Disneyland, NYC, or Myrtle Beach, Vermont or Buffalo, my husband and I get second looks all the time - literally (partiularly in the Southern states) people will stop and STARE -- very obvious and rude, actually. Is this what I am to expect relocating? What a shame that even with all the time that has passed, people are still judged on the colour of their skin. But I suppose the same can hold true anywhere in the world. A darn shame.

[Adrian71]

Originally Posted by firecracker123

Anytime we have been to the states, whether in Disney World, or Disneyland, NYC, or Myrtle Beach, Vermont or Buffalo, my husband and I get second looks all the time - literally (partiularly in the Southern states) people will stop and STARE -- very obvious and rude, actually. Is this what I am to expect relocating?

For the most part, no. Canada, in general, doesn't seem to have the same racial hangups that America does, but I do think the U.S. is slowly getting better. There are still pockets of bigotry all over the country, but in most places -- especially most large cities -- I think you'd be welcomed without a second thought.

Fortunately, the bigots are few and far between. Unfortunately, the bigots do still exist.

[and the]

It dosen't bother me if some people won't like me due to my race, my biggest apprehension would be if someone said something to my children that would harm them, I have three girls all under seven years old.

My brother's kid attends Livonia Public Schools and there is very little diversity on the bus that drops him off. In fact, he's the ONLY white kid on it. I don't think your kids will have a problem.

As far as the person who slandered the Livonia Police Department (which any idiot can tell you is a big reason why Livonia is a place that people want to move TO instead of away FROM), how exactly does your friend know that the LPD routinely stops black people based only on race? ESP??

And Mark, since you were a police officer for 17 years, and can probably relate to them, why don't you ask some Livonia cops for their perspective on what you can expect as far as kids harassing yours because of race, the cross burning you alluded to, etc?

[sugarbeet]

Originally Posted by firecracker123

This was what I was most afraid of relocating to the US period...Anytime we have been to the states, whether in Disney World, or Disneyland, NYC, or Myrtle Beach, Vermont or Buffalo, my husband and I get second looks all the time - literally (partiularly in the Southern states) people will stop and STARE -- very obvious and rude, actually. Is this what I am to expect relocating?

The Detroit metro area is probably one of the more segregated in the US, but it's far from the most racist. Most people who live in the area now didn't choose to segregate themselves, they were born into it. They're comfortable where they are, so a lot of folks from Troy don't move to Detroit, for example.

There's a fair amount of diversity and, coupled with the generally kind and conscientious population, I don't think you'll experience the stares you mentioned.

Having lived in NYC, I'm surprised to hear you felt people were staring because of your race. Maybe you were in the tourist districts and they were not from NYC, because New Yorkers have pretty much seen it all and wouldn't waste their time to stare at an interracial couple.

[firecracker123]

Originally Posted by sugarbeet

The Detroit metro area is probably one of the more segregated in the US, but it's far from the most racist. Most people who live in the area now didn't choose to segregate themselves, they were born into it. They're comfortable where they are, so a lot of folks from Troy don't move to Detroit, for example.

There's a fair amount of diversity and, coupled with the generally kind and conscientious population, I don't think you'll experience the stares you mentioned.

Having lived in NYC, I'm surprised to hear you felt people were staring because of your race. Maybe you were in the tourist districts and they were not from NYC, because New Yorkers have pretty much seen it all and wouldn't waste their time to stare at an interracial couple.

lol you're probably right on that one lol -- NYC was one of the last places we went to so I suppose it was all in my head lol

Thanks for the encouragement though -- the move is a must so I guess I hang on everything LITERALLY. It's the small things I am likely going to see a difference with I am sure

[lbbuffy]

Dear inquirer,

My only comment to you is "WHO CARES!!!" about potential racists who wish to limit your freedom of choice and the liberties that we all have a right to exercise in this seeming democracy. You are entitled to live anywhere you choose to settle your family. Live your life FULLY and STOP preoccupying yourself with what others think about you. Mind your own business, and expect others to mind there's concerning your affairs and your beautiful family who deserve your respect and the respect of any community that you CHOOSE to live in.

[Mkach]

My sisters kids go to Livonia schools. My siblings and I grew up in Livonia schools. There used to very little diversity but the schools and Livonia have become more and more diverse. A major part of that has been an inrease in black families relocating to the northern part of Westland and southern part of Livonia.

This is not to say that you will not find racism. Racism is everywhere and will probably always be around to some extent. Just remember to do lots of visits to the neighborhood you are interested to see what kind of atmosphere is there. Taking a walk around the block when you go to look at a house can help to give you an idea.

HTH

[Adrian71]

Originally Posted by and the

As far as the person who slandered the Livonia Police Department (which any idiot can tell you is a big reason why Livonia is a place that people want to move TO instead of away FROM), how exactly does your friend know that the LPD routinely stops black people based only on race? ESP??

How does anyone ever know when something like that happens? Word gets around. What happens to one person happens to another, and another, and before you know it, the department has a reputation. My "friend" is my mother-in-law, who's lived there for 35 years and knows people on the police force, and my wife, who spent nearly 30 there. I think after spending that much time in one place, you start to notice trends and patterns, even if you aren't looking for them.

I grew up in a very small town in SW Michigan than was probably 99% white, and the same kind of police profiling happened there to people who looked different. Everybody knew about it. It wasn't ESP. You just knew it happened.

Trying to downplay the racism that exists in certain places doesn't do anyone any favors. Nor does getting defensive about the situation. All you can do is try to change it. From some of the posts here, it sounds like things may indeed be changing around Livonia. That's good. Go live in those communities. Get involved. Run for office. Write editorials to the local paper. Try to make things better. But don't pretend the problems don't currently exist in the first place.