Can we hurry up with more mountain renaming (Evans, Wellington: guidelines, education)

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by interloper1138

Can I ask why the name of an arbitrary pile of rocks is so important that they must be renamed on an ongoing basis to cater to current cultural tastes? There are hundreds of unnamed peaks in Colorado and it's rare that you see anyone getting up in arms about what to call them. They're free to be called whatever, yet no one cares about them.

To reiterate, I'm not stating that Evans should not have been renamed, I'm wondering why it actually matters in the first place. The Spanish were in Colorado long before the Arapaho were. And thousands of years before the Spanish, people we barely know anything about called Colorado home. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

It's the 'significance' and 'importance' of the debate itself that I find silly, not the arguments for/against any specific name.

It's very impactful - more at a subconscious level than a conscious one. Think how many times the word Pike is scattered throughout the written verse - by virtue of him having "dibs" on the name. According to Wikipedia, it's the 2nd most visited mountain in the world. And there's really no reason why he would be associated with it - it's just this positioning that someone in 1890 thought was cute. What could be distributed instead is some essence about the mountain that gives people a more meaningful impression of what it is.

Originally Posted by COcheesehead

Learn from history, don’t cover it up.

The point is that mountains shouldn't be about history. It's not about an event, person, etc... it's about a characteristic of the feature itself that's more timeless, accurate, and enduring.

How did native people name mountains? How about Chinese? Virtually everywhere else on earth, people name mountains after features or essences, but here we have this weird aberration where some dead dude (white male if we want to go down that vein) gets dibs on the title. Nobody else on the globe does that cause it's stupid, and at a certain point that last name of a person becomes irrelevant.

Originally Posted by interloper1138

Also I find it interesting that you mention Mount Blanca as one name that you're okay with. I live in the San Luis Valley, Mount Blanca is important and symbolic to me and many other valley residents. I've hiked it twice. It dominates the skyline regardless of where you are in the valley.

But hundreds of years ago the Navajo named it Sis Naajinį́ as one of their sacred peaks delineating the eastern boundary of what they regard as their traditional homeland. 'Mount Blanca' literally means 'Mount White' or 'White Mountain' - a decidedly boring and uninspired name. And yet I haven't seen any serious campaigns arguing for it to be officially renamed for the sake of honoring Navajo traditions or 'jazzing it up' to something more creative. Were it to be renamed I wouldn't care, but I would question any sort of urgency behind the campaign.

It's the selective nature of this debate that I find so baffling.

Blanca is a perfect example! Sis Naajinį́ means white wind. I think other native words for the mountain also had white in it. The rocks themselves are oddly white on the mountain itself! Ill attach picture in next post. Blanca - spanish for white is a reckoning to the Spanish heritage. Blanca is something timeless and descriptive about what that hunk of rock is!

Originally Posted by Parnassia

Obviously, you've never read the act or what it is intended to preserve. I've linked to the 1964 public law. I'm not going to repeat it for you. Of course the point will be moot if some mountain you're upset about is not within designated wilderness, but let's continue for those that are:

https://wilderness.net/learn-about-w...ct/default.php

If you bother to read it (pretty darned short and sweet for a federal law) you will note that the purpose for wilderness designation is to preserve unimpaired the area's primeval, primitive, ecological, biological, recreational, AND historical values that existed at the time of designation. If some value was degraded at that time, attempts can be made to improve it's condition but only in specific circumstances and by limited means.

There is a history behind placenames whether you happen to feel that history is worthy or not. As long as some feature received its official name (and I mean as recorded in the USGS Board on Official Names) prior to the area's designation, the name stays. Just as an old historical use cabin stays (but may be left to rot into the ground in most cases). Just as a trail stays (it may be maintained in a limited fashion). Unnamed features stay unnamed. To keep changing names on a whim (and frankly, what you want sounds a lot like a whim) to please someone results in what is referred to as trammeling. It is a derivation of a word meaning a type of trap: to confine, restrict, to deprive of freedom of action, to tame. Trammeling results in degradation of a wilderness area's existing value.

Wildernessing creates an artificial environment in and of itself (where 1500 mutton sheep and tent campers are allowed, but god forbid a chainsaw or bicycle is used) but that's another debate for another thread.

And the exact same thing is happening with names. In 200 years, if nothing is changed, these hugely trafficked locations will all be referenced by a bunch of completely irrelevant by that point names. What a waste of vocabulary due to legal artificial frozeness.

[Phil P]

That's Blanca

[interloper1138]

Originally Posted by Phil P

Blanca is a perfect example! Sis Naajinį́ means white wind. I think other native words for the mountain also had white in it. The rocks themselves are oddly white on the mountain itself! Ill attach picture in next post. Blanca - spanish for white is a reckoning to the Spanish heritage. Blanca is something timeless and descriptive about what that hunk of rock is!

Except Blanca wasn't named that way with any sort of reverence towards the Navajo nor the rock. The massif it is apart of was named the Sierra Blanca (white mountains) because they had snow on them when American explorers / surveyors showed up in the valley... This is just a coincidence.

And I already mentioned I've climbed it twice. I'm well aware of what the rock looks like...

[adjusterjack]

here we have this weird aberration where some dead dude (white male if we want to go down that vein) gets dibs on the title. Nobody else on the globe does that

Not only is your rant flawed but your premise is flawed.

Mount Kosciuszko in New South Wales named after Tadeusz Kosciuszko.
Mount Wellington in Tasmania named after the 1st Duke of Wellington.
Victoria Peak in Hong Kong. Probably named under British rule.
Vasco Da Gamma Peak in South Africa named after the explorer.
Mount Herzl in Israel named after Theodor Herzl.
Mount Cook in New Zealand named after James Cook.

That's only a sampling. I'm sure that the world has many other mountains named after people.

[interloper1138]

Originally Posted by adjusterjack

Not only is your rant flawed but your premise is flawed.

Mount Kosciuszko in New South Wales named after Tadeusz Kosciuszko.
Mount Wellington in Tasmania named after the 1st Duke of Wellington.
Victoria Peak in Hong Kong. Probably named under British rule.
Vasco Da Gamma Peak in South Africa named after the explorer.
Mount Herzl in Israel named after Theodor Herzl.
Mount Cook in New Zealand named after James Cook.

That's only a sampling. I'm sure that the world has many other mountains named after people.

Dozens of mountains in Canada are named after people, including their tallest peak Mount Logan.

Here's an entire wikipedia article of mountains named after people in Switzerland.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by Phil P

So glad to see Evans finally got renamed to Mount Blue Sky. Took WAY too long for this to happen.

It's gross that we have so much of of the Rockies christened after egotistical idiots who thought their last name is what everyone should reference these wonders of nature after.

Good mountain names:
Mount Massive
Mount Shavano
Mount Blanca
Fairview Peak
Tater Heap
Uncompahgre Peak
Castle Peak
Mount of the Holy Cross
Mount Silverheels

Stupid names:
Greys and Torreys
Pikes Peak
Mount Sherman
Mount Elbert
Mount Wilson
Sheep Mountain (literally 500 named that)
New York Mountain
Mount Oklahoma

Just cause that's what dad called the mountain doesn't mean we should be stuck with the system of a mad dash to see who could get their name put up their first in 1895.

FWIW Silverheels was a dancer/prostitute who took care of miners during a smallpox outbreak.

I don't have a problem renaming Evans. Governor Evans was a jackwagon. He undid his legacy completely by setting the table for the Sand Creek Massacre. Over 100 unarmed women and children were murdered by Col. Chivington and his men on orders from Evans, and the mountain wasn't named for him until 30+ years after the massacre. Albert Bierstadt originally named it Mount Rosalie after his girlfriend-turned-wife.

[Arktikos]

This writing local to my area could be of interest: https://juneaunature.discoverysouthe...ming-our-home/

"Name as story; name as narcissism

What I call IGWN's (Important white guy names) are referred to by the US Board on Geographic Names as "commemorative names"....Trying to change an existing commemorative name-however objectionable-is probably futile. While Orth (1997) does have guidelines for removal of so called "derogatory names", these are rarely invoked...(Even place names including the word "squaw" are hard to delete..)

...IGWN's are even more bombproof. There's no federal process for retroactively adjudicating worthiness of important white guys, once they've been commemorated. We could argue endlessly over who was the most arrogant scumball. In early days of exploration and settlement, Southeast Alaska was a pretty mean karma place. Off-hand, I can't think of anyone from that period worth celebrating.."

[otowi]

I think there could be an argument for keeping at least some of the 'commemorative' names if along with them came a good dose of education about the biographies and histories of these people in a non-sanitized way. I think some people fear that if we get rid of all these names, that all that history would be forgotten. The original purpose of a commemoration was to honor that individual, but that original intent doesn't have to stay even if the name does, imho.

I think there is also a good argument for not ignoring or negating the prior-existing names of these places prior to 'commemoration', especially those that were native names, although when there could be several, which to prefer becomes a debate. If people can't bring themselves to accept the native transliterations/pronunciations, the translations into English would seem to be apropos. For example, Pikes Peak has a native name Tava Kaavi which I am told translates to Sun Mountain, and it was also known as James Mountain after the botanist Edwin James who first successfully climbed it in 1820 (although probably natives had prior to that).

I understand why a mountain being known and labeled with two names would be problematic for maps and computers and avoiding confusion, but I also see that bringing back the native names into the public awareness would be a good step toward recognizing the long period of human habitation prior to colonization.

[BarryK123]

Originally Posted by Phil P

It's gross that we have so much of of the Rockies christened after egotistical idiots...

Isn't that the definition of politician?

[jbgusa]

Why don't we get out of the "renaming" business for ball clubs, mountains and anything you can think of?