Another "Retire in CO" thread... (Denver, Pueblo: ski resort, transplants)

[EricBabula]

First post for me – before I start, thank you to all that contribute to this forum. I’ve learned a ton by reading through pages, here!

My wife and I (in our 50s) are looking to retire relatively soon and move to Colorado from Milwaukee, WI area. Maybe buying/moving in the next year or five? – whenever we find the right fit (area and home). We’ve been to RMNP/Estes Park area numerous times and LOVE the mountains and all they offer (hiking, biking, camping, breathless views, wildlife, fishing, etc.). Spent another 2 weeks camping in RMNP this past Sept. – LOVED it! Got to witness the elk rutting season this time – awesome! We both have dreamed of living in the mountains for much of our lives. Have visited other areas of CO also and are thinking this is the place for us! We were thinking Montana for a while, but Colorado’s winters seem much tamer for year-round living than MT or WI winters.

I’ve been reading post after post after post on these forums (where to retire to, where to move to, where to buy a log home, best places for liberals vs conservatives, best places for retirees, cheapest towns vs most expensive, etc.), trying to whittle down a list of possible towns to research more in depth and visit. So far, I have narrowed it down to about 50-100 towns! I’m doing good! But, I would like to get a bit of a smaller short-list. We plan to go back again in 2021 for a couple/few weeks to visit some more towns/areas.

What are we looking for? Everything, of course! And, for as little $$ as possible. Just like everyone else. We’re still trying to narrow down our NEEDS vs nice-to-haves.

• Somewhere relatively remote. Peaceful, quiet, no traffic noise, no neighbors right on top of you (e.g. not in a city or suburb). We want to see and hear nature (birds, elk, moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goats, bears, coyotes, pica, etc.), not the city/auto noises.
• Need mountain views! Would love to sit on our porch/deck in the mornings and evenings, looking at mountains nearby! Need easy access to the mountains and lots of hiking options.
• Would also like water nearby (pond/lake, river/stream) or even on property, visible from the deck. I know, can’t have it all, but I can dream!
• My wife would like “green” (in this case meaning the color, not the environmental aspects, so we would likely be ruling out the most desert-like areas), but I don’t know that “green-green” is in the cards in CO. Are there any areas of CO that are considerably more green-ish than others? More northern areas? More higher altitudes?
• Thinking of a newer log home (maybe 3 bed/2 bath) near or in the mountains. Preferably with a decent amount of land (to avoid neighbors/traffic noise being too close). Are there any websites we can search for “log homes” in specific, rather than just homes? I’m more in the log home camp – wife would probably be just as happy in a regular home, so we’ll be looking at both options.
• Not against buying a piece of property and having our own log home built. I read on these forums that someone likes to buy property with a trashed mobile home, bulldoze it and quickly build a oversized garage/shop with an apartment above – that way you get a nice lot, a well, septic, power, driveway, building permit, all ready to go so you can live in the apartment while building a new home. Might not be a bad strategy. Thoughts?
• Would like to be “relatively” close to amenities (maybe 20-60 min away from shopping, restaurants/pubs, music/art scene, health care/hospitals will become more important as we get older).
• Would still need good internet access.
• Would like to be within an hour-ish or so of an airport. We still want to travel for now, within the U.S. as well as internationally. Could probably do a regional airport to get to Denver Int’l, then to our destination.
• We love hiking, biking, camping, kayaking. As for kayaking, I’m talking about lazy rivers/lakes, not white water so I suppose options are limited in the mountains – do we have to be in the foothills or plains for that? Would love to have quick access to hiking and biking for sure. Driving to kayaking (1-2 hours) isn’t a big deal.

Questions:

• Given our love of RMNP-type mountains and access to miles and miles of great hiking, and the desire for a little more “green”, would we rule out the Eastern Plains as well as areas nearer to NM and UT?
• I understand the population density issues with the Front Range, nearer to the larger cities like Ft. Collins, Boulder, Denver, Colorado City, and Pueblo. So, would probably stay away from those more urban areas. But, it seems that there are still lots of viable smaller towns that might have what we’re looking for without being so near the bigger cities, like along the Peak-to-Peak Hwy, or Evergreen, Conifer, Woodland Park. Am I wrong about that?
• What do you think about areas around Estes Park? People don’t really talk about those towns too much: Allenspark, Hidden Lake, Ward, Jamestown, Lyons, Drake, Glen Haven, Rustic.
• What about Central CO: Canon City, Florence, Salida, Buena Vista, Gunnison, and numerous towns around there?
• Other options that fit our wants in Front Range or Central CO??
• We’re not really downhill skiers, and don’t want the terribly high costs of the ski resort towns like Aspen, Vail, Breckenridge. I read about the beauty of Montrose, Telluride, Silverton and Ouray – are they all also very expensive?
• Given our wants, what are the advantages of Western Slope over Front Range? We still would want to be near the big mountains, easy access to hiking, health care, etc.
• Does Western Slope offer better weather (esp. winters) than eastern side of the Rockies?
• Western Slope seems much more rural. No real cities (thinking health care) except for Grand Junction or Durango – or am I missing some other cities that would have good health care/hospitals?
• Western Slope: would we be better off sticking closer to Continental Divide: Grand Lake down to Granby, Tabernash, Fraser?

You know, I was originally thinking we would want to be near Estes Park/RMNP entrance (or maybe within 2-3 hours max). But, it seems there are other areas equally as beautiful, with the same (or maybe better?) hiking and wildlife viewing options.

Well, this post got really long, really quickly! Sorry! If you read all of this, I applaud you! And, thank you in advance for any and all advice.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by EricBabula

First post for me –... RMNP/Estes Park area ...We both have dreamed of living in the mountains for much of our lives. ...
...
What are we looking for? Everything, of course! And, for as little $$ as possible. ...

• Somewhere relatively remote. Peaceful, quiet, no traffic noise, no neighbors right on top of you ...
• Need mountain views! Would love to sit on our porch/deck in the mornings and evenings, looking at mountains nearby! Need easy access to the mountains and lots of hiking options.
• Would also like water nearby (pond/lake, river/stream) or even on property, visible from the deck. I know, can’t have it all, but I can dream!
• My wife would like “green” ...Are there any areas of CO that are considerably more green-ish than others? More northern areas? More higher altitudes?
• Thinking of a newer log home (maybe 3 bed/2 bath) near or in the mountains. ...
• Not against buying a piece of property and having our own log home built. ...
• Would like to be “relatively” close to amenities (maybe 20-60 min away from shopping, ...
• Would still need good internet access.
• Would like to be within an hour-ish or so of an airport. ...
• We love hiking, biking, camping, kayaking. ...

Questions:

• Given our love of RMNP-type mountains and access to miles and miles of great hiking, and the desire for a little more “green”, would we rule out the Eastern Plains YES as well as areas nearer to NM and UT? NO, there are pristine areas in NM and UT mtns
• I understand the population density issues with the Front Range, nearer to the larger cities like Ft. Collins, Boulder, Denver, Colorado City, and Pueblo. So, would probably stay away from those more urban areas. But, it seems that there are still lots of viable smaller towns that might have what we’re looking for without being so near the bigger cities, like along the Peak-to-Peak Hwy, or Evergreen, Conifer, Woodland Park. Am I wrong about that?I suggest as a retiree to stay IN your desired spot... not have to commute with zillions of others and also deal with transient commuters as neighbors... that is NOT a great social life, nor quiet ('commute towns' for retirees or workers) No one is happy... workers have to go to work, retirees have to put up with 'cry-babies' (people who live there at night only and expect the community to serve ONLY them. )
• What do you think about areas around Estes Park? That seems to be the best choice for your expressed desires
• What about Central CO: Canon City, Florence, Salida, Buena Vista, Gunnison, and numerous towns around there? Might work, but... These are not near an Airport (without a commuter flight, can be $200 RT each + 2 extra hours for connections and flights and transfer) Everywhere is currently booming in CO (Covid escapees)
• Other options that fit our wants in Front Range or Central CO?? Consider Northern NM and NE UT also), WI friends just relocated near Chama, (Brazo Cliffs) Nice spot, they had lived and worked there for 20 yrs about 40 yrs ago) . I really like Mora Valley of NM (North of LV, south of Angel Fire)
• We’re not really downhill skiers, and don’t want the terribly high costs of the ski resort towns like Aspen, Vail, Breckenridge. I read about the beauty of Montrose, Telluride, Silverton and Ouray – are they all also very expensive? If renting... you can try these spots. Several classmates moved to Mtn towns in 1970 and are still there, otherwise they would have been priced out (to think of buying now)
• Given our wants, what are the advantages of Western Slope over Front Range? More Green, less people, less noise and traffic, further from an airport
• Does Western Slope offer better weather (esp. winters) than eastern side of the Rockies? (Less wind, some VERY cold spots... (Fraser / WP), likely more moisture if on western slope (clouds unload moisture before climbing mtns)
• Western Slope seems much more rural. No real cities (thinking health care) except for Grand Junction or Durango – or am I missing some other cities that would have good health care/hospitals? BV, Salida, Montrose / Gunnison will have decent 'routine' HC
• Western Slope: would we be better off sticking closer to Continental Divide: Grand Lake down to Granby, Tabernash, Fraser? Tough commute for medical care or daily treatments (when / if)

You know, I was originally thinking we would want to be near Estes Park/RMNP entrance (or maybe within 2-3 hours max). But, it seems there are other areas equally as beautiful, with the same (or maybe better?) hiking and wildlife viewing options. Move to EP and enjoy it while you can. 5+ yrs you might be ready for something different, but you will have a great time in EP, it meets your current desires.

Well, this post got really long, really quickly! Sorry! If you read all of this, I applaud you! And, thank you in advance for any and all advice.

#1... This needs a price range. little $$ as possible. ... I will just estimate you have the $1m to get started in this conversation. If not, expand your horizons (BTW, there are some great 'Banana Belt' places in MT... such as Clark Fork Valley, Plains, MT (Fruit growing, like Palisade, CO) Some places in SD and ID might work as well (Mtns and cheaper than CO and decent (?) weather)

I grew up near Estes,(High ranch / summers) / Masonville (Low ranch / winters) and it sounds like Estes really fits you at this time, but... as my retired friends say, "We never loved Estes Park (20 yrs) as much as we do when we moved to Loveland (24 yrs) (Actually at the mouth of Big T Canyon, ~10 m west of Loveland). Pretty brisk wind and cold in Estes in winter, but... The views are really spectacular. We have a place to stay frequently on Pole Hill directly overlooking EP valley / lake and RMNP. For retirement, you want a GREAT view, you finally have time to stay home and enjoy it.

I would consider your retirement home may be a couple chapters / places and none are perfect forever. While you are active and able live IN the mtns and enjoy them out your doorway and from your deck and front room. No sense commuting to recreation / enjoyment. Just LIVE there!

I would propbably rent and put my million $ to work in a cash flowing real estate investment where you might like to visit occasionally in winter. (such as income tax free NV... Carson City, Reno, LV...). $1m can feed you $10,000 / month positive cash flows, so renting anywhere (except Tokyo) will be CHEAP and still have plenty of dough to travel.

I would NOT BUY a log home (new or old). They are a perpetual maint headache (and fire danger). Use some of your extra cash flows to stay lots of nights in The Great Lodges of the National Parks and enjoy the craftsmanship of the 1930's. I helped several friends build them (We built ~6 in one yr for coworkers in Estes, Masonville, and Glenhaven). I was never impressed (with the work and weatherproofing required). We just had our 'retired' neigbors over last week and they have a 6,000 SF log home with 28' vaulted ceilings. NICE!!! I enjoy visiting them too!, but not helping with Maint. We had to frame in the peak to divert the heat that loved to stay at 28'. Then there are the taxes... (Another reason to rent) Rent a log home and let the owners deal with it

retire ASAP, there is not enough time to do all you like to do AND care for a home, so enjoy a few areas until you are too tired of kayaking / bicycling around and decide where you want to nest. (Priorities / situations / needs change after retirement, sometimes drastically!!!.

Early retiree friends in AZ always wanted to move to CO (They have horses). They could not swing the expense of Estes, Glen Haven, or Ft Collins, so ended up in Nunn "Watch Nunn Grow" BTDT for the last 60 yrs... (windswept Prairie). They built a place, worked like dogs. Simple medical error on elective surgery and POOF, one spouse is GONE. My uncle did similar at age 59... get that last simple surgery while still employed and on HC... whoops, medical error. Vegitative for 15 yrs. All the retirement projects rusted and were sold as scrap (6 JD tractors).

Retiree friends in TX took military retirement early and built a wonderful stone home on a lake, lots of landscaping work and beautiful setting. For various reasons they were each using walkers within 2 yrs and had to sell their dream house and move to a city apartment so they would be close to nursing care.

Stuff happens...

Your wife is from WI and likes GREEN?
Make sure you visit CO in the winter !!! (I was there yesterday, Jan 20) Brown... ever brown! (Late May, June and early July can be pretty green) on average yr... Aug can be pretty dry, Sept might green up if there is not a freeze.

Since CoS is getting SWA this spring, You might look within 1 hr of airport for a view property

My wife likes green and refused to move back to CO after moving to the Evergreen State and visiting CO every couple months during winter. I tried, because CO is excellent for biking and even has indoor swimming in most cities during winter !!! No Dice, she would have nothing to do with BROWN anymore. (tho she had many yrs in CO and all family was still there.)

Hint: Don't bring your wife to GREEN in the winter, if you are living in Brown.

[COcheesehead]

If you want green, healthcare and less people, I would throw Montrose into the mix as well. Look at Ridgeway too.

Great access to the San Juan’s, Telluride, Ouray, Black Canyon, Crested Butte. Towns with views and amenities similar to Estes Park without the crowds.

Regarding real estate, nowhere in Colorado is cheap anymore, but the western slope generally is still a better deal than the mountain towns or the front range. Don’t wait. Prices are going up quickly.

I am biased, but I think the western slope holds more of what you want than the front range. I also moved here from the Milwaukee area years ago.

[EricBabula]

@StealthRabbit - thanks for all your input! Really helps me get some things to think about!

Sorry, I really should have mentioned our anticipated budget up front: unfortunately, we weren't thinking $1M. We were looking at $500K. I know - NEVER going to get all that I asked for. We will have to compromise on some things. Thought I'd just put out the wish list and see what people thought we could actually get. We do have a decent amount of $$ we're going to spend on "toys", also (5th wheel camper, truck, ATVs, snow mobiles, furniture, etc.).

I totally understand your ideas of "retire early"! We are 53 and 56, and we're hoping to retire in 2022. CO has been the dream for quite a few years, now. The Rockies have been a dream of both of us for decades! I, too, have had people close to me have issues around retirement. I've had two half-brothers that have died just at retirement, so they never got much of a chance to enjoy their golden years with their wives.

BTW - I already warned my wife about the lack of green grass, and am showing her pictures of properties (Estes Park, Ouray, Salida for now), just to get her prepared to not expect green-green everywhere. We would still have the pines, Aspen, etc. to love!

I didn't really think about it, but maybe you're right, that we could live IN the mountains for now, and move closer to health care in the future, when being close will be more necessary. Something to think about. We do want those views, though! Early mornings and evenings, sitting on the front or rear deck, looking at the mountains! That's the life!

Man, you're killing me about the maintenance of a log home! LOL! I'll have to research that more. I've been enamored with log homes, and have been watching the show "Log Cabin Living" (HGTV), and falling more and more in love with the idea! But, maybe I need to research the negatives of log homes and get my heart out of the decision and my head wrapped around realities. Anyway, because she's the boss (happy wife, happy life!), she'll probably end up getting her way!!

Again, thank you for all your tips!

[EricBabula]

@COCheesehead - ha, well, maybe you're my resident expert, since we are coming from the same area!

Funny, but just yesterday I was looking at properties in Ouray, and found a few parcels of land available in Ridgway! I have to look at some more pics/videos of Ridgway, also! We're going to have to visit that area when we go back this year.

Can I ask what area you ended up in? Don't need to know exact town, but generalities? What do you like and not like about where you live in CO? What are some challenges you didn't expect? How are the health care choices in that area? Access to airport? Another poster mentioned not much access to airports in Western Slope. More for me to research.

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by EricBabula

found a few parcels of land available in Ridgway! I have to look at some more pics/videos of Ridgway, also! We're going to have to visit that area when we go back this year.

BrightDogLover lives in Ridgway. PM her.

[pikabike]

One thing is for sure. You will not be hearing any pikas from any house, log cabin or otherwise. They do not live at elevations humans actually reside at.

You need to study CO climates, ecozones, native vegetation types, and a lot more basic info before getting your heart set based on strangers’s recommendations. Many such recommendations are based on vacations or other idyllic views of an area, including fairly recent transplants’ still-rosy praises. The ugly or troublesome stuff can take years to reveal themselves.

Don’t forget to study water rights in CO, while you’re at it, if you think you might want to “grow a few crops on a few acres.”

The things on your wants lists come closest to matching the most expensive parts of the Front Range ‘burbs and exurbs. Even in the latter, your Internet choices might only consist of slow and slower. Your lists show urban wants jangled in with no crowding = unicorn.

StealthRabbit’s rough minimum of $1 million to play the game isn’t farfetched. Especially now that you have so much extremely wealthy competition for the exact same wants.

What we heard from log cabin owners: Don’t ever get one unless you love cleaning frequently and deeply. The scalloped surfaces inside and out retain dust and grime, and if they logs are not well-chinked they also do not seal out the cold well.

[brightdoglover]

Originally Posted by COcheesehead

If you want green, healthcare and less people, I would throw Montrose into the mix as well. Look at Ridgeway too.

Great access to the San Juan’s, Telluride, Ouray, Black Canyon, Crested Butte. Towns with views and amenities similar to Estes Park without the crowds.
...

I moved to Ridgway almost three years ago from Boston in retirement. I looked carefully into the Montrose Hospital, access to primary care in Montrose, public transport options (in case unable to drive) and so forth. I did buy a lot in the historic area of Ridgway and built an 800 sq.ft. home. No interest in log construction, having seen it in Maine and it has all the issues that are already discussed. I even got vinyl siding because I have no interest in wood staining and all. Metal roof- no ice dams, fire protection and lower house insurance because of it.

Had I not been able to buy and build in-town Ridgway, I would have bought a lot in Elk Meadows and built there.

There are almost never small(er) houses for sale in the area. If you want a non-huge house in this area, it's best and simplest to buy a lot and build what you want, no more, no less.

I have been very pleased with life in the area and heartily recommend it as a retirement option. People seem to do a lot of hiking/camping/skiing and you name it right nearby. I mean, people come from all over the country to visit here for 4-wheeling and all outdoor activities.

OP's budget would work fine for a building lot and a decent modest new house (relatively speaking). I've been very happy with that decision. I look forward to hearing more.

And oh, no "e" in Ridgway. It's named after an early resident who worked the railroad, not for any geographic feature. There is another Ridgway no "e" in Pennsylvania, and it's also the last name of a serial killer from the Pacific Northwest. Hard to explain this any other way.

[brightdoglover]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

BrightDogLover lives in Ridgway. PM her.

Yes, please PM me. I did post an answer towards the end of this discussion before seeing this suggestion. I am a great cheerleader for retiring in the Ridgway area, having done so almost three years ago and did *a lot* of homework before coming here. (Disclaimer- had vacationed here since 1988 at a guest ranch but never got to Ridgway itself much, mostly just Ouray).

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

When my husband and I started thinking about our retirement home in Colorado, we spent several summers driving around all over the state to check out smaller towns. We had some of the same criteria as you, OP. Even though we were moving from Denver, I grew up on the east coast and really missed the lush greenery and water. Just a side note: we spend our winters in Hawaii and our summers in Colorado, so I have the best of both worlds.

So, I can understand your wife's desire for "green". You will be hard pressed to find "green green" in Colorado just because of what grows there versus Wisconsin. So finding the right climate to grow stuff in will be important to you. I've always like the small town of Cedaredge, but it is too far from our families in Denver.

We ended up buying in Buena Vista. Nice laid back small town with lots of outdoor activities close by. Our house is just outside of town where we have unobstructed mountain views. However, one of the reasons we have such good views is that there is very little vegetation. The pinon pines we planted five years ago are still just seven feet tall. In the town itself, there are several creeks and a whole lot more vegetation. Lots of nice big green trees that block the views of the surrounding mountains. Salida is about twenty five miles from BV and has a regional hospital and more shopping opportunities. BUT, it's still two hours to a decent size airport.

Real estate is booming in Colorado right now. In BV, houses are selling at ridiculous prices. It's a mixture of people wanting to escape the big cities, and people being able to work remotely. I continue to be amazed at what prices people are willing to pay for small old houses on small lots. We bought a vacant lot in our subdivision three years ago for $26,000, and could sell it today for $60,000