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I'm worried about the statements and statistics that get tossed around, seemingly "proving" that a 4-year college degree will earn graduates better pay than...what? No college at all? A 2-year CC degree? I've never forgotten the parent who posted here years ago, about financing his daughter's BA degree only to discover afterwards, that all it qualified her for was entry-level office work. He sounded completely deflated, thinking, "Now what?"
The truth is, that CC grads with a certificate in office technology or Microsoft Office, can get those same jobs. Highschools that still have some shred of voc tech could qualify students for the same jobs; today it would be a course in Microsoft Office instead of typing class. The real money for non-STEM students, with the exception of those getting a teaching certificate, is in "professional degrees" involving an MA or JD.
I'm worried about the statements and statistics that get tossed around, seemingly "proving" that a 4-year college degree will earn graduates better pay than...what? No college at all? A 2-year CC degree? I've never forgotten the parent who posted here years ago, about financing his daughter's BA degree only to discover afterwards, that all it qualified her for was entry-level office work. He sounded completely deflated, thinking, "Now what?"
The truth is, that CC grads with a certificate in office technology or Microsoft Office, can get those same jobs. Highschools that still have some shred of voc tech could qualify students for the same jobs; today it would be a course in Microsoft Office instead of typing class. The real money for non-STEM students, with the exception of those getting a teaching certificate, is in "professional degrees" involving an MA or JD.
A college degree will often mean the difference between a person being promoted into a higher level job or staying at that same entry level desk job.
Employers want to see that a new hire will show up and do the work day in, day out first. They need to learn the basics about the organization before they are asked to assume supervisory or management roles. I'd even say that many want the mid level pay but not necessarily the actual responsibility of the job.
Heck, if a rocket scientist applied to a fast food place, they would first need to demonstrate that they could do the job of a team member before they were promoted to team leader.
The problem is no one has any patience anymore and they want to just be able to zoom straight into a mid career position with little to no actual work experience.
I'm worried about the statements and statistics that get tossed around, seemingly "proving" that a 4-year college degree will earn graduates better pay than...what? No college at all? A 2-year CC degree?
Many years/ decades of data indicate that, on average:
A 4-year college degree earns more money than a 2-year CC degree.
A 2-year CC degree earns more money than just a high school degree.
A high school degree earns more money than only some years of high school.
So yes, this is the truth.
There is a strong correlation between educational attainment level and income.
A college degree will often mean the difference between a person being promoted into a higher level job or staying at that same entry level desk job.
Employers want to see that a new hire will show up and do the work day in, day out first. They need to learn the basics about the organization before they are asked to assume supervisory or management roles. I'd even say that many want the mid level pay but not necessarily the actual responsibility of the job.
Heck, if a rocket scientist applied to a fast food place, they would first need to demonstrate that they could do the job of a team member before they were promoted to team leader.
The problem is no one has any patience anymore and they want to just be able to zoom straight into a mid career position with little to no actual work experience.
I see. Thanks for explaining that. So a college grad is assumed to have the capacity to grow in a business and work his/her way up. Well, that's worth something.
Many years/ decades of data indicate that, on average:
A 4-year college degree earns more money than a 2-year CC degree.
A 2-year CC degree earns more money than just a high school degree.
A high school degree earns more money than only some years of high school.
So yes, this is the truth.
There is a strong correlation between educational attainment level and income.
Well,what I'm saying is, that I haven't seen that bear out in the real world, in some job fields. The difference hasn't been noticeable, if you look at the employment category that used to be called "clerical", for example. There are a lot of relatively dead-end jobs in state offices and universities, that may allow some upward movement from one category to the next, but not much. Not compared to the salary range a graduate degree would qualify one for.
But even though a CC degree would qualify candidates for those jobs, a BA is preferred in most states, even though the jobs really are only CC-level, and have the same limited growth potential. The same applies to bank jobs, with the rare exception of a few who manage to work up into middle admin positions.
Many years/ decades of data indicate that, on average:
A 4-year college degree earns more money than a 2-year CC degree.
A 2-year CC degree earns more money than just a high school degree.
A high school degree earns more money than only some years of high school.
So yes, this is the truth.
There is a strong correlation between educational attainment level and income.
OK, now take out all the engineers, scientists, teachers, RNs, and everyone who went on th a professional graduate school (MD, JD, etc.) from that "average 4 year degree) and see what happens.
You can't compare things that don't compare. Community colleges don't graduate engineers, doctors, RNs, lawyers, etc. The person who wants to be an engineer knows he's got to finish at least a 4 year degree. He doesn't get a two year associates and stop, because that's not how you get into that field.
I see. Thanks for explaining that. So a college grad is assumed to have the capacity to grow in a business and work his/her way up. Well, that's worth something.
You're very welcome. I remember reaching a point where there was a limit to how far I could go up the cooperate ladder because I did not possess a college degree. I was promoted quite a bit beyond entry level but to advance further I would have needed to take night classes to complete my degree. I probably should have done that but I was already working 60 hours a week. My college dropout husband, however, did go on to complete his degree and that opened more doors for him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
School, for me, was one of the hardest jobs I ever had.
I had to study ridiculously hard to get the best grades possible.
So, I’m not sure about these definitions.
First few degrees were not such an academic struggle, tho (3 were engineering), I maintained a 3.5+ as well as FT job + (2) PT jobs + caring for disabled parent.
My last degree program (after age 50) was tough (academically). So my 'homeschooled' college kids tutored me, so as to not jeopardize the family GPA.
We all graduated magna the same yr (from 3 different U's)
Gold cords and such.
We all held FT jobs while students.
There is benefit to graduating AND having relevant work experience.
OK, now take out all the engineers, scientists, teachers, RNs, and everyone who went on th a professional graduate school (MD, JD, etc.) from that "average 4 year degree) and see what happens.
You can't compare things that don't compare. Community colleges don't graduate engineers, doctors, RNs, lawyers, etc. The person who wants to be an engineer knows he's got to finish at least a 4 year degree. He doesn't get a two year associates and stop, because that's not how you get into that field.
You can get your ASN at the community college and become an RN after you complete your program and pass the NCLEX. You can also get certifications in programming that will help you to get a job. I believe you can get certified to be an early childhood educator.
There are actually quite a few programs at the community college level that can lead directly to a better paying job.
I'm worried about the statements and statistics that get tossed around, seemingly "proving" that a 4-year college degree will earn graduates better pay than...what? No college at all? A 2-year CC degree? I've never forgotten the parent who posted here years ago, about financing his daughter's BA degree only to discover afterwards, that all it qualified her for was entry-level office work. He sounded completely deflated, thinking, "Now what?"
The truth is, that CC grads with a certificate in office technology or Microsoft Office, can get those same jobs. Highschools that still have some shred of voc tech could qualify students for the same jobs; today it would be a course in Microsoft Office instead of typing class. The real money for non-STEM students, with the exception of those getting a teaching certificate, is in "professional degrees" involving an MA or JD.
Ruth, you are speaking to one of my pet peeves with the "everyone should go to college" mantra. I've been seeing that general statistic since elementary school. We used to get book covers and notebooks from the school with that general statement printed on it. It's been used to guide and misguide several generations of children.
Because it's a statement that while true, is without context. Not all degrees and not all situations match the general statement. Further, it's without the context of how many of those jobs exist. The reality is, if we reached educator utopia and every student graduated from college, we'd have college educated burger flippers simply because there are not enough jobs that actually require a college degree.
We see this with high school degrees becoming so watered down that a high school diploma doesn't mean anything. Hence more jobs are requiring a college degree simply to improve the odds the pool of applicants will have the basic skills that a high school diploma used to mean.
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