Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Nobody is forcing the kid to enter college. There is no bayonet in the small of his back prodding him into the admissions office.
Nobody is certainly forcing this hypothetical kid to attend the most uber-expensive private college on the planet, especially when far, far less expensive public universities dot the map.
Nobody is forcing him to major in something that has limited career prospects upon graduation.
Nobody is forcing him to undertaking a circuitous academic route to obtaining his degree.
Nobody is keeping him from working a part-time job here and there to shave off his expenses.
Nobody is keeping him from getting internships to increase his marketability upon graduation.
Um yeah this is happening but it isn't as overt as you would think it. I had a good English teacher in my 11th and 12th grade years at high school who worked the minimum wage bank jobs before jumping into being a teacher late on and he promoted the fact you don't want to be in a minimum wage job. A college degree is a ticket out of this. Politicians also support line of thinking.
Quote:
In a nutshell, the people complaining about this crisis are the ones who took zero responsibility for their lives upon entering college, racked up a lot debt in coursework that would pay a nickel ninety eight when the degree was earned, and now want to blame the big, bad banks for -- gasp -- actually wanting to be paid back.
That is some what true. HOWEVER, there are more and more jumping on the band wagon due to the lack of job prospects for a large majority of college graduates.
Quote:
Well, I'll let you in on a secret. Banks hate student loans. No, they despise student loans. First, they don't make squat off them and the default rate sits at roughly 13%. That means roughly 1 student loan in 7 becomes bad paper. Because the default rate is so high, they spend huge amounts of money trying to collect on them. That makes them grotesquely unprofitable, which is why really big banks are bailing out of them altogether. They are simply unprofitable. So the people who want to portray the average bank as some kind of Simon Legree just are being unreasonable.
I don't look at the banks as evil, the issue is unlike credit cards, the debt don't end up as bad debt if little Johnny ends up getting seriously sick and has to go chapter 11 because of medical bills as well as other expenditures that needed to be bought through credit. A college loan, cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. If you have a loan, you still need to pay it off. When you compare it to any other form of debt, it is unfair that aspect. Not that the loan itself is unfair.
Quote:
Heck, I was an English major. Even though my parents did not give me much help with my college, I walked off the stage at graduation with a big fat $0 in student loan debt because a) I busted my ass to get a scholarship and two grants, b) I always had a job to pay for the rest of my tuition, books, and cars, and c) I was incredibly frugal. Hope that helps.
I am glad YOU were able to do this. The fact is MANY people don't or didn't do this. Logic like this only helps those looking at college, perhaps those in college and not those with the debt post-graduation. For recent graduates this is hindsight. Hindsight does not do anything other than give people grief.
Um yeah this is happening but it isn't as overt as you would think it. I had a good English teacher in my 11th and 12th grade years at high school who worked the minimum wage bank jobs before jumping into being a teacher late on and he promoted the fact you don't want to be in a minimum wage job. A college degree is a ticket out of this. Politicians also support line of thinking.
But your English teacher and your politicians didn't force you to go, it was your choice. If they had told you to jump off a cliff would you have? Its all about choices and personal responsibility.
At top 100 schools kids graduate with under 20k on average. Median income for college grads 25-34 is around 45k. Kids who should be in college are doing fine. It is when you start going to for-profits or racking up 50k in loans at lower tier schools.
Um yeah this is happening but it isn't as overt as you would think it. I had a good English teacher in my 11th and 12th grade years at high school who worked the minimum wage bank jobs before jumping into being a teacher late on and he promoted the fact you don't want to be in a minimum wage job. A college degree is a ticket out of this. Politicians also support line of thinking.
That is some what true. HOWEVER, there are more and more jumping on the band wagon due to the lack of job prospects for a large majority of college graduates.
I don't look at the banks as evil, the issue is unlike credit cards, the debt don't end up as bad debt if little Johnny ends up getting seriously sick and has to go chapter 11 because of medical bills as well as other expenditures that needed to be bought through credit. A college loan, cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. If you have a loan, you still need to pay it off. When you compare it to any other form of debt, it is unfair that aspect. Not that the loan itself is unfair.
I am glad YOU were able to do this. The fact is MANY people don't or didn't do this. Logic like this only helps those looking at college, perhaps those in college and not those with the debt post-graduation. For recent graduates this is hindsight. Hindsight does not do anything other than give people grief.
Please. I'm not giving people grief. I'm simply pointing out that, at 18, you are an adult. You are expected to think and choose like an adult. Entering college, I took a cold, hard look at what my options were and pursued my options doggedly. I didn't just passively accept whatever my high school teacher told me. I did my own research, applied for my own scholarships and grants, and found my own jobs. And when I felt my job wasn't paying enough, I found a better-paying job. I used my brains and initiative and the world rewarded me for doing so.
What's more, a four-year college is not the only avenue towards a well-paying job. Not even close. There is a critical shortage of any number of technical professions out there, skills that could be acquired in a two-year community college. Heck, in the next decade along, there's going to be an estimate shortage of truck drivers upwards of 500,000. That number is certainly debatable, but I'm thinking I'd much rather drive a rig and earn 50K a year with zero student loan debt than be a barrista in a coffee shop with $100K in student loan debt and a degree in social work.
On to the issue of student debt not being dischargeable. The reason for that is simple: For years, people were gaming the system by racking up tens of thousands in student loans and then promptly filing for bankruptcy upon graduation. Because of this dodge, banks were about to revolt. After all, they were already lending money at way below market rates and their borrowers were blithely skipping out on their obligations. With student loan default rates north of 20% before Congress finally stepped in, THAT'S why college loans can no longer be discharged in bankruptcy. The abuses were just too endemic.
But your English teacher and your politicians didn't force you to go, it was your choice. If they had told you to jump off a cliff would you have? Its all about choices and personal responsibility.
In my graduating class (I grew up on Long Island FYI) everybody at least enrolled into college that graduated from my high school whether it was enrolling in community college, university or armed forces. So I am not sure if that is a good sample.
As for jumping off the cliff if I would have been told to, perhaps but likely no unless it was some issue where I would get punished for it. Are we saying you must do this to "pass the course," is an Excalibur test of listening to your elders and if you don't you are shunned by the community or is this something else that has nothing to do with these others? There is too much hidden context in that hyperbole to give a straight answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Please. I'm not giving people grief. I'm simply pointing out that, at 18, you are an adult.
Not you but the logic of "well I did this, you should have too" that you and many c-d posters use. I myself have almost done it in the past as well.
My family is European. I really get tired of people who think they can take the economic policies of a country of 5 million and apply to a country of 300 million. It doesn't work. Most European countries have a strong national culture, unlike Americans. We also have a culture of abhors discrimination in the realm of education. We don't put limitations on people if they want to go to college. Anyone who wants to go, can. If we try to change that, it will be met with a ferocious backlash as the public clamors for educational equality.
That being said, college is attainable for anyone who desires to go and they do not have to go into debt to do it. Your daughter's decision to go to a $50,000 a year school was a choice. A choice. She could have gone to college for much less money.
I went to college, and I did have some debt when I graduated, but I also worked, had three children at home and was a single parent. Had I not had children, I probably could have gotten by with no debt. I made choices that were within my income. I went to a college I could afford, got whatever financial aid I qualified for, didn't go to college to party, cut back on expenses, took longer than four years, etc.
None of my children had a college fund. All of them are going to college. My oldest wanted to go to an expensive college and he did. And did it with five thousand dollars in student loan debt. My daughter is doing it without any debt and my other child is probably going to have almost $20,000 when he graduates. He's getting a degree in engineering, so, hopefully, he won't have to worry about being jobless. They all worked or are working and they made choices that did not require them to take on massive amounts of debt. I also counseled all of them to avoid student loan debt.
By sending your child to an expensive school, you are the one who is feeding the corporate machine.
And one more thing: The highest salaries at most schools usually goes to the football and/or basketball coaches. Not the president of the college.
At top 100 schools kids graduate with under 20k on average. Median income for college grads 25-34 is around 45k. Kids who should be in college are doing fine. It is when you start going to for-profits or racking up 50k in loans at lower tier schools.
But the issue is out of the 70% of high school seniors who graduate, half go onto college and half graduate. So say there are 10 million high school seniors in 2013. 7 million graduate, 3.5 go onto college, 1.75 end up graduating. According to an article from Politico about 57% of college students have loans. So that means that about 2 million college students take out loans. Now to get to the "average of 20k" that means all college students who take out loans must rack up about 40K to average out the ones who don't (if you think about less than half of the college students who don't take out loans and use other avenues such as a parent's TSP, savings or inheritance from a dead relative's estate.
As for the for-profit schools as of September 2011, New York Times had an article that talked about how many college students attend these schools. There is only 12% of college students going to these schools. Now yes defaults from 2009 grads in 2010 were 47% and about 25% of the total student debt is tied in, the sway that you put on them is over-warranted.
the tendency in x generation is to borrow money u have no intention of paying back.
they learned this from the boomers. the boomers did not learn this from their parents
the smartest 18 year olds I know work in Alaska
got a 2 year vocational Ed plan and already feed and house themselves
not one of them has debt or any intention of going to school for the next 20 years
But your English teacher and your politicians didn't force you to go, it was your choice. If they had told you to jump off a cliff would you have? Its all about choices and personal responsibility.
Lol, yes we know...thank you for stating this for the 8th time.
But the issue is out of the 70% of high school seniors who graduate, half go onto college and half graduate. So say there are 10 million high school seniors in 2013. 7 million graduate, 3.5 go onto college, 1.75 end up graduating. According to an article from Politico about 57% of college students have loans. So that means that about 2 million college students take out loans. Now to get to the "average of 20k" that means all college students who take out loans must rack up about 40K to average out the ones who don't (if you think about less than half of the college students who don't take out loans and use other avenues such as a parent's TSP, savings or inheritance from a dead relative's estate.
As for the for-profit schools as of September 2011, New York Times had an article that talked about how many college students attend these schools. There is only 12% of college students going to these schools. Now yes defaults from 2009 grads in 2010 were 47% and about 25% of the total student debt is tied in, the sway that you put on them is over-warranted.
Even if you'd like to use your 40k figure that is less than one year of the median salary for college grads 25-34.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
