What Are the Things That Clevelanders Take for Granted? (Huron: casino, taxis)

[216facts]

Originally Posted by WRnative

FirstEnergy Stadium's location on the lakefront was a disaster, but the decision was forced on Cleveland by the NFL, which had such a tight deadline for building a new stadium there was no time to assemble sufficient land by eminent domain to locate the new football stadium south of Progressive Field. Certainly, significant funds were saved by using the existing location.

Cuyahoga County/Cleveland should be targeting a new location for the football stadium now. The "new" stadium was built using Municipal Stadium's wood pilings and I've read that FirstEnergy Stadium has bad settling issues that require costly fixes.

Parking lots on Prospect might be the logical location for a new stadium. Perhaps Erie Street Cemetery could be relocated.

Next year (2019), it will be time to tear down FE Stadium. The Richfield Coliseum lasted only 20 years and FE Stadium's date with fate should be September 12, 2019 - 20 years from opening day.

Of course it will not happen, but it is interesting to note that both the FE Stadium and the Coliseum sit (sat) on land that should have been public lands to begin with. The Coliseum being built within the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, the same inaugural year for both.

Hasty decisions are usually bad decisions, and the decision to put the Cleveland Browns Stadium on the lakefront was bad - but made hastily to secure a team. Somewhere over near Prospect would be a good idea. It would be hard for me to support a $1B project for 8 to 10 games per year. The NFL is a total taxpayer ripoff.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by 216facts

Next year (2019), it will be time to tear down FE Stadium. The Richfield Coliseum lasted only 20 years and FE Stadium's date with fate should be September 12, 2019 - 20 years from opening day.

Of course it will not happen, but it is interesting to note that both the FE Stadium and the Coliseum sit (sat) on land that should have been public lands to begin with. The Coliseum being built within the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, the same inaugural year for both.

Hasty decisions are usually bad decisions, and the decision to put the Cleveland Browns Stadium on the lakefront was bad - but made hastily to secure a team. Somewhere over near Prospect would be a good idea. It would be hard for me to support a $1B project for 8 to 10 games per year. The NFL is a total taxpayer ripoff.

It definitely should be a multi-purpose facility capable of hosting soccer and lacrosse in addition to football, as well as other events. It will need a retractable or fixed roof. And it might not cost $1 billion in Cleveland, with its own local steel plant and relatively cheap construction costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Bank_Stadium

[ferraris]

FE Stadium just seems too isolated from the rest of downtown, and there's too much of a sea of parking lots and industry around it. I don't think the water location itself is the problem. Heinz Field in Pittsburgh is on the water, too, and doesn't get used much more than FE stadium, but the riverfront park makes it feel like less of an interruption.

[teacherdad]

Where was the former stadium in relation to FE?

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by teacherdad

Where was the former stadium in relation to FE?

The exact same spot.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ferraris

FE Stadium just seems too isolated from the rest of downtown, and there's too much of a sea of parking lots and industry around it. I don't think the water location itself is the problem. Heinz Field in Pittsburgh is on the water, too, and doesn't get used much more than FE stadium, but the riverfront park makes it feel like less of an interruption.

I disagree, Ferraris.. Football stadiums are too big and self contained to be easily integrated into downtown neighborhoods. And the fact they are mainly used once-a-week, usually on dead, cooler/colder Sunday afternoons, enhance such isolation. The main socialization outside these stadiums themselves are tailgate parties in individual cars, pickup trucks and SUVs that fans drive up, pre-game in then leave town after the game is over. Such gigantic structures take up so much land and require significant space around them, they are often more of an impediment to downtown growth than they are an asset...the very example of First Energy stadium, like its Muniicipal stadium predecessor blocking downtown, lakefront residential development is a case in point.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by ferraris

FE Stadium just seems too isolated from the rest of downtown, and there's too much of a sea of parking lots and industry around it. I don't think the water location itself is the problem. Heinz Field in Pittsburgh is on the water, too, and doesn't get used much more than FE stadium, but the riverfront park makes it feel like less of an interruption.

Well, when you build a stadium in an area that is already isolated from the rest of downtown, said stadium will be isolated from the rest of downtown.

Cleveland is among several cities trying to figure out how to connect to its waterfront.

[ferraris]

It's a fair point about the low usage, even compared to other sports besides football . Maybe it is better off slightly to the edge of the downtown area instead of right in the heart of it -- Lucas Oil (Indianapolis) and Ford Field (Detroit) are decent implementations of that. Do keep in mind that for a lot of people it's one of the few reasons to come into the city, so having it in/near downtown gives the city a chance to make a good impression.

I don't think the water location itself is the problem. Soldier Field and Heinz Field are both on the water and still manage to have some nice park like areas instead of having parking right up to the water. I'd like to think one day a strip of trails or pedestrian bridges could connect Edgewater/Wendy Park over to Voinovich Park/Burkfront Airport and create a much nicer lakefront experience here.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by ferraris

It's a fair point about the low usage, even compared to other sports besides football . Maybe it is better off slightly to the edge of the downtown area instead of right in the heart of it -- Lucas Oil (Indianapolis) and Ford Field (Detroit) are decent implementations of that. Do keep in mind that for a lot of people it's one of the few reasons to come into the city, so having it in/near downtown gives the city a chance to make a good impression.

I don't think the water location itself is the problem. Soldier Field and Heinz Field are both on the water and still manage to have some nice park like areas instead of having parking right up to the water. I'd like to think one day a strip of trails or pedestrian bridges could connect Edgewater/Wendy Park over to Voinovich Park/Burkfront Airport and create a much nicer lakefront experience here.

I think pro-football crowds are different than baseball or basketball fans, the latter of whom have a bunch of evening dates, often on Friday and Saturday nights where they do avail themselves of restaurants, clubs and even (especially) our Tower City casino. (and most Indians games and many Cavs games, are during warm weather months when people are more prone to want to be outside and enjoy the afternoon or evening) Unlike Sunday afternoon Browns crowds, these fans generally don't tailgate; in part because tailgating has become a football only tradition and, in part, there's just less stuff to see and do on afternoons of the Sabbath for most religions...Those bleak/cold, dead-Sunday afternoon crowds aren't looking to see or hang out in downtown. They bundle up themselves and, often, their kids, hop in their cars or (hopefully) on the Rapid to go sit outside, often/usually in cool or freezing, sometimes, snowy weather for 3.5 hours. And because of the huge crowds, the long lines even for the Rapid, and modest to long waits, their motivation is to get in, get their seats and, when it's over, get the hell out.

Once again the large areas surrounding these buildings makes long walks to the car even more of an issue. First Energy stadium has no built in or even confidently nearby parking garages -- I don't count either the existing, underground Willard or Huntington garages as immediate or especially convenient to First Energy Stadium.. People mainly park on the vast surface lots in/around the Port of Cleveland... Sometimes even parking in farther away lots in the Flats or the Muny lot where they have even longer to/from hikes only to get to their cars and, then, sit in heavy traffic...

Fortunately the Waterfront Line Rapid is, in fact, adjacent to the stadium and why it's so heavily utilized during Browns home games... But as noted even with the Rapid there are long lines., and sardine-can packed Rapid-cars to deal with coming and going during peak periods.

None of thare options leave much time or opportunity for downtown sightseeing or hanging out...

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by ferraris

It's a fair point about the low usage, even compared to other sports besides football . Maybe it is better off slightly to the edge of the downtown area instead of right in the heart of it -- Lucas Oil (Indianapolis) and Ford Field (Detroit) are decent implementations of that. Do keep in mind that for a lot of people it's one of the few reasons to come into the city, so having it in/near downtown gives the city a chance to make a good impression.

I don't think the water location itself is the problem. Soldier Field and Heinz Field are both on the water and still manage to have some nice park like areas instead of having parking right up to the water. I'd like to think one day a strip of trails or pedestrian bridges could connect Edgewater/Wendy Park over to Voinovich Park/Burkfront Airport and create a much nicer lakefront experience here.

That's a great point. I thought Cleveland was gonna build pedestrian bridges. What happened to that?