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I see your point, but don't act as if corruption and power mongorers don't exist in these tiny fragmented 'burbs towns and villages, they do.
Admittedly true. But in those situations, it's much easier to fire them--either next election or by impeachment if the case warrants it. In a small community, there's a greater likelihood you'll know your public officials personally! You can even look them in the eye and demand the truth.
Trying to get rid of a corrupt official in a large city is like removing a tree stump w/roots halfway to China.
For example, D.C.'s Marion Barry is still in public office—no longer as mayor, but an elected official nonetheless! Heck, since we're talking about Cincy here...even Jerry Springer remained in office after his notorious prostitute episode. And if we're talking about pure incompetence, why do Clevelanders keep electing Dennis "Default" Kucinich to either govern or represent them? Good grief...
People in small towns or suburbs simply wouldn't put up with that kinda hooey.
People in small towns or suburbs simply wouldn't put up with that kinda hooey.
Kucinich's district encompasses some suburbs. If they would n't put up with that "hooey" then why is George "Where's the truth" Bush still in office, having been voted in by a conservative base situated mainly in the exurbs and rural areas of this country?
But this place simply isn't progressive-minded enough to consider how beneficial it would be to merge the cities with their respective counties
I certainly agree with that. This area has a very obsolete approach to local government, which is subsidized by the city income tax that Ohio permits. This tax subsidizes local government balkanization and inefficiency, as there is no incentive to consolidate and achieve economies of scale.
The Cincy-Dayton area actually has too much government at the local level...too many police departments, too many speed traps, too many park and rec disricts, too many little taxes and levys and fees, too many rules and regulations from various types & levels of governments.
I'd rather there be less incorporated areas not more, less suburban goverments. For example Washington Twp has the same level of services as Centerville, but Centerville has a city income tax to pay for more fluff, like its own PD (rather than have the county sheriff do the police work). and own planning department (rather than have Montogery County handle planning and zoning), and its own park (rather than have that run by the Washington Twp park district).
This level of duplication just seems silly to me, and it costs the taxpayer, too.
Kucinich's district encompasses some suburbs. If they would n't put up with that "hooey" then why is George "Where's the truth" Bush still in office, having been voted in by a conservative base situated mainly in the exurbs and rural areas of this country?
Because at least he was better than the alternatives.
Not to stray too far off topic, but it's funny you should bring that up. I'm really not a GWB fan. Although I'm part of that conservative base that voted him in, Bush Jr. has done a lot of things to alienate his base in the past 6 yrs. Time after time, he has sold us out, compromised our principles and p*$$ed us off...and that explains why his ratings are like 28% and falling. I voted twice for the "lesser of two evils", but I'll be glad to see W. head back to the ranch in '08. Time to give someone else a try.
And you're right about Kucinich's district! Which makes me marvel at how people in the 'burbs can be just as stoooopid as those in the City
Because at least he was better than the alternatives.
Not to stray too far off topic, but it's funny you should bring that up. I'm really not a GWB fan. Although I'm part of that conservative base that voted him in, Bush Jr. has done a lot of things to alienate his base in the past 6 yrs. Time after time, he has sold us out, compromised our principles and p*$$ed us off...and that explains why his ratings are like 28% and falling. I voted twice for the "lesser of two evils", but I'll be glad to see W. head back to the ranch in '08. Time to give someone else a try.
And you're right about Kucinich's district! Which makes me marvel at how people in the 'burbs can be just as stoooopid as those in the City
My last post on this off topic, topic. Voting for the lesser of two evils because he or she is the lesser of two evils is never a good thing and is a wasted vote if you are voting for someone you think is not a good candidate.
My last post on this off topic, topic. Voting for the lesser of two evils because he or she is the lesser of two evils is never a good thing and is a wasted vote if you are voting for someone you think is not a good candidate.
Oddly enough, that really brings us "full circle" back to the topic at hand.
I agree it sucks and is really frustrating to hold your nose and vote for someone you don't really like--only because you realize the opposition would be worse. What kind of choice is that?!
And yet, that's pretty much what we've done in local elections the past several years in Columbus. City Hall in Cols. has become a de facto one-party state, and last mayoral race Coleman ran un-opposed. This has enabled a typical good ol' boy network to operate from 90 W. Broad with very little scrutiny. Controversial legislation is often passed with minimal public debate (heck, there's scarcely even any public knowledge!)
Once again, this all underscores the virtue of having politicians serve close to home where constituents can watch them. "Familiarity breeds accountability."
Who knows, if they ever decided to consolidate Cols. and Franklin Co. at least that might pull in a more politically diverse voter base...
Seriously though, the odds of any such consolidation happening in Cols., Cincy or Dayton are very slim. I could sooner imagine in happening in Cleveland/Cuyahoga Co. than any of these other places.
I'd rather there be less incorporated areas not more, less suburban goverments. For example Washington Twp has the same level of services as Centerville, but Centerville has a city income tax to pay for more fluff, like its own PD (rather than have the county sheriff do the police work). and own planning department (rather than have Montogery County handle planning and zoning), and its own park (rather than have that run by the Washington Twp park district).
This level of duplication just seems silly to me, and it costs the taxpayer, too.
You bring up a wonderful and current point when talking about duplication and an overabundance of a similar service, for example, the whole debate in Kettering on whether or not to disband their dispatchers and link up with Montgomery County. For at least the past couple of years, Beavercreek has consolidated its services with everyone from its township to the county and even neighboring cities. In the past year, Beavercreek and Fairborn opened a new fire house to serve both Fairborn and Beavercreek City/Twp. In all the years that Beavercreek has been an incorporated entity, we have had few problems (minus the township deciding to ditch the city PD and go with the sherrifs office, and can I tell you its made for a lot more cops here) with sharing resources. Not that the city or county are perfect, but maybe Montgomery County should take some examples from Greene's playbook if they want more consolidation? Better yet, could the region benefit from these ventures? Nobody's died from a confused dispatcher who doesn't know the area.
However, I am curious as to how much of a discount Kettering and Washington Twp. residents receive at their respective rec centers. Beavercreek/Greene County has been mulling over this awhile. Part of the delay is caused by disagreement on locations and the other by a question of duplication (ie Greene County YMCA has a center w/ indoor pool in Beavercreek, Xenia's getting a brand new facility). We get a discount, but I personally find the Greene County YMCA a tad outdated for the price and in need of a major overhaul (its been about a year since I've been there). The problem is that the city has little control. The parks dept. has done a wonderful job with the surrounding land, now only if we could buy the place off of the YMCA organization.
I'm just curious on whether a plan like this would be worth the cost.
Let me make a prediction. Suppose in a few years, perhaps around the mid 2010s or so, we have an accute economic crash parallel to 1929, essentially plunging the United States into bankruptcy. Unable to collect sufficient taxes to continue many of its present operations, the national government falls into total disarray, forcing states and cities to pick up much of the slack. In other words, a major restructuring of government must take place, with the focus being upon maintaining the essentials for the survival of civil society (i.e. infrastructure, roads, water, police, fire, schools, hospitals/medical, etc.).
Should this come to pass, you will see regional governance by absolute and unconditional necessity, as the existing paradigm of numerous townships, incorporated hamlets and smaller conglomerations of urbanized communities will simply be unable to continue on. Aside from being terribly inefficient in terms of resource distribution and use, there is simply no way that all these entities will be able to continue to provide the quality of services that people are used to, unless they pool their resources together through administrative consolidation.
I would expect cities such as Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland in Ohio and the Midwest in general to form Multi-County regional governments, perhaps on a model similar to the five-county (or "borough") New York City government system. State borders may even become irrelevant at some point, for the same reason I mentioned above for the national US govt., allowing Cincinnati to incorporate its' metropolitan counties in Northern Kentucky and Indiana, plus maybe a consolidated Dayton-Montgomery County, into a multi-county regional government.
Unlikely? Perhaps it only seems so at the moment. As an old Indian proverb says, be careful where you are heading because you may very well find your way there.
Oh, great... City-states, just like medieval Italy and Germany? Yuck...
Granted, it would be kinda nice to see a drying-up of the revenue stream to Washington, effectively starving the BEAST (Big Government) and forcing them to abandon worthless programs and whole bureaucracies. However, any devolution of accrued powers would revert back first to the several States--which initially formed the Union in the first place!
If Ohioans wanted to sever the state into regional entities such as you propose, each centered on a particular city, the state assembly would still have to allow for it by some sort of legislation. It couldn't simply happen via the agitation of city functionaries in Dayton, Cincy or anyplace else.
In any case, under any circumstances, I'm not too keen on rural areas being answerable to "rulers" in the Big Cities (where all the commies are). That's why I think our Founders were so wise to devise the Electoral College. A look at any recent electoral map shows why.
If socialist City Bosses ever tried such a scheme, they'd best remember...it's the COUNTRY folks who have all the guns
II'd rather there be less incorporated areas not more, less suburban goverments. For example Washington Twp has the same level of services as Centerville, but Centerville has a city income tax to pay for more fluff, like its own PD (rather than have the county sheriff do the police work). and own planning department (rather than have Montogery County handle planning and zoning), and its own park (rather than have that run by the Washington Twp park district).
This level of duplication just seems silly to me, and it costs the taxpayer, too.
Jeffery T, I live in Washington Twp. and somewhat agree with you. (Sorry it took so long to repond...) I agree with your sentiment on the duplictaion in the Centerville P.D. and Twp's use of Montgomery Co. sheriffs. (Especially since they find an inordinate amount of time for "revenue enhancement" on I-675... having said that, I rather like the added police presence and I believe that holds down the crime rate.
I'd be scared to death if Montgomery Co. did our planning and zoning... I like the idea of people that WE elect (and that live here) are responsible for planning and zoning. Yes, there's an argument in here for regionalization...) As for fire services, I'm very proud of Washington Twp F.D. Dayton F.D. is also a good department but I'd be concerned about what we have in our townshiop F.D. being watered down with a regional fire service.
Washington Twp and Centerville are currently studying a possible merger. Nothing is even close to being decided. And I am amenable to a merger as long as both interests are properly represented.
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Great point!
Dispatch
