What's the deal with Forest Park?

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by goyguy

Now that this thread's been revived after about three months I'm going to go ahead and run the risk of steering it off the rails.
One of my many favorite sayings goes, "You can take the fill-in-the-blank kid out of the country/ghetto/etc but you can't take the country/ghetto/etc out of the kid." There's a lot of truth in that. Part of Forest Park's evolution has entailed attracting some AA mainstays of Cincinnati out there, such as churches (both newly established and expanded or relocated) and a branch of one of the city's oldest funeral homes. And for every head of household who was raised in a suburban environment such as Woodlawn there's at least one who's bought or rented "up" from a city setting which could be a poorer area like Avondale or even a public housing community. For all of their silliness, old TV shows like "The Beverly Hillbillies" and "Fresh Prince of Bel Air" touched upon what actually happens when folks from one sort of place land in another. They bring their culture with them. It's one thing to hang on the streets socializing at all hours, dabble in "vices" such as casual drug dealing, and so on when you're in OTR. It's quite another when you're in suburbia. You run up against people with no exposure to how life is in "da 'hood" and those who've strived to leave it behind. Resentment builds the more the new arrivals refuse to adapt and the inbumbent residents mutter, "That boy down the street whose mom just brought him here from Winton Terrace had some of his damn friends over at 3 AM again. After they rolled up and leaned on the horn they kept the music blasting and talked, more like yelled, for over an hour. Some of us work for a living around here" and so on.
Add to that the ongoing embracing of "ghetto stylin'" by its rightful owners and kids of all shades from all economic levels. Offending the old folks by donning raggedy clothes and smoking weed was played out by the '80s, but putting an inner-city AA spin on it still works. Some male teens of any race are all about perp-walking and hand-signaling around while uttering bon mots like "Where ma ho's at" and using degrading words such as "dawg" or "ni99a" as terms of endearment (both in hailing friends and for splicing into conversation.) Meanwhile their female counterparts also use, or more likely affect, the same street lingo and similarly emulate inner-city behaviors right down to deliberately getting pregnant. To their elders all of this is "shocking, I'm telling you, utterly appalling." This sizable adolescent subculture thrives no matter where you go, so putting it on Forest Park is unfair.
Carrying this a bit farther: with over 70% of AA households headed by a single mother, equating academic and professional success with "acting White," and idealizing "thug" and "gangsta" behavior Black folks got issues. I know all about how much the US continues to be a racist society: "noise ordinances" that never existed when pale kids roared around in muscle cars crankin' tunes, disinvestment by factories and retailers when a neighborhood "changes," bias - now more subtle - on the part of realtors, presumptions that someone only got where they are in a job because of affirmative-action mandates, on and on it goes. The sad thing is the predictable self-loathing and destruction that this brings, carried out in how much of the youth generation behaves while White kids latch onto its "coolness." There's no geographic boundary where all this is concerned - Indian Hill and the West End alike are impacted. Leaving or avoiding FP only means stumbling into it elsewhere.
"Just sayin'," now I'll climb off my know-it-all Caucasian soapbox.

Goyguy, that's about one of the best descriptions of certain aspects of black life that I've seen on this forum...doesn't matter a whit to me if you're white, you have ALWAYS been on point with your posts, and this is no exception---basically, you're calling it as YOU see it, and sometimes, it takes a differing viewpoint (and a different presenter LOL) to bring the truth to light

[Melissa1047]

Just curious you speak of "AA" what does that mean?

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by Melissa1047

Just curious you speak of "AA" what does that mean?

Hi Melissa...AA is Goyguy's way of saying 'black folks'---it's a shortening of the term 'African-American' which, had he used it repeatedly, would have made his post even longer (by the way, your friendly poster is 'AA' himself LOL)

[Melissa1047]

Thanks Captain!

[dmccullar01]

I read some of the posts from 10 years ago. I wish I could of gotten in back then, but I grew up in Forest Park. My family moved to FP in 1976 still in the early days for blacks. My brothers and I were part of the racial integration movement that took place back then. We were forced to go to a Greenhills Elementary school called Lakeside. We represented approx. 5-7% of the blacks who attended the school. Believe it or not we didn't run into many racial issues. Kids are color blind...it's when their parents introduce racism. This begins the complication within a child's life. I personally remember the parents giving us dirty looks. We did experience many whites including their parents who were very friendly to us. This provided hope that not all people are racists or bad (black and white). When the 2 highschools combined, I graduated in 1993 (2nd joint Greenhills and FP) highschool. If you were to view our class pictures there was a 60%-40% white to black ratio. Now I believe it maybe 90% - 10% black to white ratio. FP for by brothers and I was a wonderful place of adversity. I remember in 1985 when the Beautification Awards and competitions came out. You would rarely find a section that was completely run down or not kept up. Now FP is much different in many respects it is not the same since the 1980s and before. When Blacks and Whites learn to live together there is a special and unique bond and pride that takes place. It's when they live separately racism, isolationism and other negative elements of environments begin to take place. Take Norwood and Lincoln Heights. Norwood has been known as a place where Blacks should not go nor live and the same goes for Lincoln Heights for whites. I encourage everyone who reads this post to view the best in people and not the worst that applies to all groups of people.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by dmccullar01

When Blacks and Whites learn to live together there is a special and unique bond and pride that takes place. It's when they live separately racism, isolationism and other negative elements of environments begin to take place. Take Norwood and Lincoln Heights. Norwood has been known as a place where Blacks should not go nor live and the same goes for Lincoln Heights for whites...

Although I really appreciated your reminisces centered on Forest Park, I think it's necessary to add comment about both Norwood and Lincoln Heights. When talking about race relationships today, these two suburbs are drastically different.

First, I feel a need to say something direct and painful about Lincoln Heights. Today this place is a mess and it's been so for decades; it's the Cincinnati version of East Cleveland. Almost nothing has changed since it nearly ruined the much lauded Princeton School District back in the 1970's when Princeton was forced to incorporate the failing Lincoln Heights school system. For example, virtually overnight, both Princeton High School and Junior High School became violent, racially divided encampments with all the trimmings of an inner city ghetto. After the merger, when it became clear what the new classroom environment would become, a handful of teachers in these two schools (including myself) chose to transfer to other districts.

In contrast, and in keeping with the ideals you mention when races learn to get along, Norwood has evolved tremendously - so much so that many old timey Norwood residents now curse the place and wish they could escape. As you mentioned, in days gone by, the general populace discriminated against any person of color. Mountain top thinking and action was totally intolerant of anyone different from themselves, and blacks who crossed the Dana Avenue railroad tracks into Norwood were justified to feel anxious and fearful.

No more. Today, blacks and whites peacefully intermingle throughout Norwood. The centralized, bustling Norwood Kroger store is predominately black, the Norwood school system is proudly diverse (including a growing Hispanic presence) and apartment rentals and home ownerships are increasingly black. As for myself and my wife, we reside within this centralized area of Norwood where black and white intermingle, including many young inter-racial couples, without recrimination. Added to this, several businesses on Montgomery Road are owned or operated by Hispanics who conduct business, as well as socialize, predominately in Spanish.