Cincinnati metro area projected to overtake Cleveland in 2015 (Columbus, Akron: assessment, housing)

[unusualfire]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I don't understand how there is a comparison between Cincinnati's metro area of 15 counties to Cleveland's 5. It takes 15 Cincinnati counties to catch-up with Cleveland's 5 and Cincinnati is bragging? If you added 10 counties in Northeast Ohio to Cleveland's MSA there would be 4+ million people.

Just adding adjacent Summit County where Akron is takes the population up to 2.8 million in Cleveland's metro but Akron is a separate metro area. So if a resident of Cuyahoga County moves to adjacent Summit County the Cleveland metro is declining while a resident of Hamilton County moves to Clermont County or across the river to Kentucky into Indiana there is no change; hmmm....

Don't you realize there is a lake that prevents that. It the main reason the area is more dense than Cincinnati.

[INsync33]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I don't understand how there is a comparison between Cincinnati's metro area of 15 counties to Cleveland's 5. It takes 15 Cincinnati counties to catch-up with Cleveland's 5 and Cincinnati is bragging? If you added 10 counties in Northeast Ohio to Cleveland's MSA there would be 4+ million people.

Just adding adjacent Summit County where Akron is takes the population up to 2.8 million in Cleveland's metro but Akron is a separate metro area. So if a resident of Cuyahoga County moves to adjacent Summit County the Cleveland metro is declining while a resident of Hamilton County moves to Clermont County or across the river to Kentucky into Indiana there is no change; hmmm....

First of all Cleveland and Akron have 8 counties in its metro area, that equals 3.5 million, now cincinnati counties are way way more smaller, you got to be kidding, 3 of the counties in the cincinnati area fit into the size of one county in Cleveland. Look at this map. Cincinnati counties are small due to hills and different types of topography, cleveland is boring in fat or what Cleverfeild likes to say "Cleveland is number 1"
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ticounties.png

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I don't understand how there is a comparison between Cincinnati's metro area of 15 counties to Cleveland's 5. It takes 15 Cincinnati counties to catch-up with Cleveland's 5 and Cincinnati is bragging? If you added 10 counties in Northeast Ohio to Cleveland's MSA there would be 4+ million people.

Just adding adjacent Summit County where Akron is takes the population up to 2.8 million in Cleveland's metro but Akron is a separate metro area. So if a resident of Cuyahoga County moves to adjacent Summit County the Cleveland metro is declining while a resident of Hamilton County moves to Clermont County or across the river to Kentucky into Indiana there is no change; hmmm....

I seem to recall MSA's are based upon the percentage of people that commute from an area near the main city that work in that city. Cleveland would have a larger metro area (square miles) if people say from Akron actually commuted into Cleveland for work. This is the reason Cincinnati has a much larger area considered to be a part of the metro area. More people (percentage wise as a component of the total population) living in outlying areas commute to the city for work than in Cleveland. Even a distant city to Cleveland such as Youngstown would be considered a part of the Cleveland metro area as a suburb if people living there suddenly stopped working there and started to work and commute to Cleveland on a daily basis.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Kamms

I don't understand how there is a comparison between Cincinnati's metro area of 15 counties to Cleveland's 5. It takes 15 Cincinnati counties to catch-up with Cleveland's 5 and Cincinnati is bragging? If you added 10 counties in Northeast Ohio to Cleveland's MSA there would be 4+ million people...

Your concern that Cincinnati's MSA consists of 15 counties while Cleveland's MSA consists of only 5 is certainly justified. Understandably, such a 3-1 advantage appears unfair. (and maybe it is, if MSA's, alone, are being compared)

Nevertheless, let's consider two other things: (1) ignore the # of counties surrounding Cincinnati and Cleveland, and study what each county consists of; and (2) realize that this comparison between Cincinnati and Cleveland is primarily about metro economics rather than metro size and demographics.

The majority of Cincy's counties add little to its MSA other than land--scenic, hilly, rural, and generally undeveloped.

So let's just eliminate eight outlying counties (Clinton in OH; Bracken, Gallatin, Grant, Pendleton in KY; and Dearborn, Franklin, Ohio in IN) and keep seven core counties (Hamilton, Butler, Clermont, Warren in OH; and Boone, Campbell, Kenton in KY). Now, let's add Montgomery County from Dayton's MSA, for a combined total of eight.

Then, to Cleveland's MSA counties (Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain, Medina), let's add Ashtabula, Portage, and Summit for a combined total of eight. Then we compare these eight with Cincinnati's eight.

Naturally, Cleveland will come out ahead in population (Cincy app. 3-million, Cleve app. 4-million or more), but the major economic drivers of both cities will be still contained within each core. And I believe that's where this discussion needs to be aimed--ie, at what's actually happening economically. No news source has declared Cincinnati Ohio's biggest economy just yet, but that it soon will be if present trends continue. Therein lies much to be said.

[kjbrill]

^^ I like your approach to the analysis. Ignore the rural and undeveloped areas. Give Cleveland credit for the close bordering counties, specifically Akron, as I consider Akron a large Cleveland suburb. I think it is a stretch to include Montgomery in the Cincinnati Metro as there is just not yet that close of a tie between Dayton and Cincinnati, though it is coming, particularly with the increasing infill between the two and the number of jobs there being occupied by both Daytonians and Cincinnatians.

In this approach, Cleveland Metro still has a far larger population and will likely remain so for some time. But population is only a part of the study. The main topic here is economic production. That is where Cincinnati has been creeping up.

We have seen now about a decade of resurgence in the core City of Cincinnati, slow but steady. This has been a welcome resurrection. Yes it is true some of the outlying neighborhoods have been declining, but as many have commented get the core in shape and it will spread out as prices force people out of the core.

But I fear the recent Cincinnati council election has deflated the balloon. Many outsiders are going to view Cincinnati not as a City of doers, but one of give uppers. Business investors prefer an environment with a positive outlook, which Cincinnati has been developing. But when you shutdown a partially completed streetcar to go along with the abandoned subway, there is nothing positive about that!

Living in the suburbs I have nothing to say about Cincinnati other than to comment they are setting the environment where Cleveland will continue to be on top. Stopping a partially built streetcar is simply going to send a message to business - stay away, these people do not honor their commitments! How else can you evaluate it!

[WILWRadio]

Looking at how the Census defines a metro area (as I previously described) is what leads to the determination of the size of the geographical area. As a result, the defined area can be a little screwy looking in the eyes of those that are not affiliated with the Census.

A perfect example of this is Hartford. It actually has towns and small cities in two southern counties in CT that are considered a part of the metro area while others on either side of these towns are not. Reason being? People that live along Route 9 heading towards Old Saybrook which sits on Long Island Sount (Atlantic Ocean) commute to Hartford for work. But towns to the east and west of these towns that sit along Route 9 likely have people that commute to New Haven or New London or work locally. Maps are embedded in this link as an example:


http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...mbing-top-spot

Note the area in red to the south of Hartford. That is the area I am talking about. Just a few towns near Route 9 are considered part of the metro area even though the other surrounding towns likely have residents that will shop and utilize other services as well as culture and entertainment in the Hartford metro area. To the west, there are a lot of people that commute from Litchfield County into the Hartford area to work but not enough to have it designated as part of the metro area.

Here's a link showing both Cleveland's and Cincinnati's metro areas. Embedded map in this link too. Have to enlarge it by clicking on it to get an idea of the areas covered. Judging by what I see the Cleveland market is accurately defined simply because Mansfield, Akron and Youngstown are still centers of commerce and employment and retain the bulk of their population to continue work in their respective metro areas. If that changes and people begin to commute to Cleveland for work then the Census will redefine the metro area.

Greater Cleveland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Don't you realize there is a lake that prevents that. It the main reason the area is more dense than Cincinnati.

The lake prevents what?

[unusualfire]

Adding counties. You can't build on a lake. If Cleveland was located in the middle of nowhere with no natural barriers the density would go way down and add more counties, since it would be surrounded by them.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Adding counties. You can't build on a lake. If Cleveland was located in the middle of nowhere with no natural barriers the density would go way down and add more counties, since it would be surrounded by them.

Go south, east and west of Cleveland then but you can't because of the other adjacent metros which is what I really consider. I understand that the CMSA is much larger. It is true that Cinci is kinda in the middle of nowhere and add on many more counties, just like Columbus. I remember living in Cincinnati for a few years and hearing all the Cleveland bashing. I added a couple of comments on the Enquirer's story about the 5 vs. 15 county point but of course the Enquirer deleted it; nothing negative but no one could make a counter point because the Enquirer didn't want anyone to hear this point. The Enquirer doesn't want people to know this; odd. Censorship of that? It just wants to have its agenda that Cleveland sucks and is dying while Cinci is ''booming''. Cinci's nice and all with the hills but no thank you. Too quasi-south. And trust me, if one Cleveland has a much larger big city feel to it than Cinci.

[unusualfire]

Well San Diego has one county. And Atlanta has 33+. Pick your poison. lol