How do you find out about Section 8? (Cincinnati, Norwood: low income, apartment)

[t45209]

What is the best way for a potential homebuyer to be able to find out if the duplex next door or the apartment building down the street is Section 8? Short of going door to door, where can you find out?

[Sarah Perry]

Probably difficult to do without contacting the property owner and asking if it's been approved for Section 8, or contacting the tenants and asking if they're Section 8. But what's the point, really? A landlord could get his or her property listed for the program at any time, assuming it met eligibility requirements.

There are 700+ properties in Cincinnati listed here, but I assume unless one was available for rent it wouldn't show up on the list.

Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority - HCV Rental Listings

[wolden]

I don't intend to start another pointless discussion of section eight, but from the perspective of a home buyer, an interesting question is whether section eight is a cause or a symptom.

By that, I mean that 1) A lot of people think section eight causes a neighborhood to decay, because it brings in "undesirables"
2) But, it could just be a symptom that the neighborhood is already decaying. Because section eight is a way for home or apartment owners to get money for their properties. If they could get more money than section eight provides, they would. So therefore the property values already have to be going down for section eight to make economic sense.

To some extent its a chicken and egg thing. But the easiest way to avoid section eight (for the most part0 is buy in a neighborhood where the rents are too high for section eight. These happen to be the cincinnati neighborhoods everyone always refers to: low density housing at high cost.

[Sarah Perry]

Actually, I don't think Section 8 eligibility means landlords accept lower than market rate rents, I think it just means that the government's footing part of the cost. During my brief, disastrous foray into rental property ownership, I looked into the program and found some aspects that seemed potentially beneficial, like the guaranteed rent payments. I also heard from other landlords who had happy stories to tell about Section 8, like the quiet, respectable, careful and clean poverty-stricken older widow types some of them had the good fortune and good sense to rent to.

My impression is that where it's more likely to get ugly is in some of the large complexes where it's way more difficult to police what kinds of tenants you're getting than it would be in a duplex.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

Actually, I don't think Section 8 eligibility means landlords accept lower than market rate rents, I think it just means that the government's footing part of the cost. During my brief, disastrous foray into rental property ownership, I looked into the program and found some aspects that seemed potentially beneficial, like the guaranteed rent payments. I also heard from other landlords who had happy stories to tell about Section 8, like the quiet, respectable, careful and clean poverty-stricken older widow types some of them had the good fortune and good sense to rent to.

My impression is that where it's more likely to get ugly is in some of the large complexes where it's way more difficult to police what kinds of tenants you're getting than it would be in a duplex.

The CMHA voucher waiting list is closed and has been for quite a while. So a person with a voucher is a really lucky person. If they get kicked out of the program for misbehavior that is a major problem. they lose their voucher and will not get back in. So, although Section 8 voucher tenants are usually below the income level for the neighborhood, they are often as well behaved as they can be.

Project based Section 8, those buildings with a HAP contract like mine, can take anyone they want who can qualify under the low income certification standards. So there is an endless supply of tenants. And, the project based Section 8 landlord can accept only the cream of the crop so long as no discriminatory screening techniques are employed.

[progmac]

Many of the really bad buildings in Cincinnati actually are not section 8. so spend some time in the neighborhood and get a feel for the building rather than judge it based on a list.

[goyguy]

Do the Saturday/Sunday test I'm "endlessly" promoting. Drive, or preferably walk, around the neighborhood in good weather on a Saturday night after 10:00 and then again on a Sunday in mid-afternoon. See how much activity there is along the sidewalks, how much noise is in the air, how passersby react when you greet them (especially during the daytime), etc. If all is well during multiple pass-through's - allow 30 minutes or so - then what does it matter how much the residents earn?
Many apartment buildings, particularly if they contain six or more units, will have landlord/manager info posted right outside the front door - or in the lobby if the person doesn't live there. Anyone curious could call the phone number shown and just ask, "Do you accept Section 8 tenants?" There's no need for explanation.
I concur that Section 8 is most problematic when it's allowed in large, absentee-owned complexes. That's how the program has gotten a bad name in communities like Westwood. The consequences are more mixed in low-density areas such as Finneytown. A few "bad apples" can spoil the whole bushel.
Much hue and cry ensued earlier this year when the news was leaked that a single-family home in Hyde Park had been sold to a government entity which planned to make it available to tenants "on assistance." A brick-box apartment house in Mt Lookout was purchased by the city housing authority recently also. But I think few persons except those with thick skins and clean noses would dare apply to live in either of those communities. They'd be subjected to way too much scrutiny and pressure from the neighbors.

[t45209]

I'll be the first to acknowledge that S 8 isn't always bad. The Cambridge Arms behind Biggs in Oakley is a prime example of a clean, quiet, well-managed facility (probably doesn't hurt that majority of the tenants appear to be women in their 60s or 70s).

However, I met a guy from Westwood who bought a decent house for a good price, but only too late realized that the house next door was S 8 and it's been a real nightmare for him. His only hope now he thinks is to find someone that's as big a sucker as he was to buy his house and get out. It's really unfortunate.

Anyone have any ideas on how widespread S 8 is in Norwood?

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by t45209

I'll be the first to acknowledge that S 8 isn't always bad. The Cambridge Arms behind Biggs in Oakley is a prime example of a clean, quiet, well-managed facility (probably doesn't hurt that majority of the tenants appear to be women in their 60s or 70s).

However, I met a guy from Westwood who bought a decent house for a good price, but only too late realized that the house next door was S 8 and it's been a real nightmare for him. His only hope now he thinks is to find someone that's as big a sucker as he was to buy his house and get out. It's really unfortunate.

Anyone have any ideas on how widespread S 8 is in Norwood?

Tell him to complain about every scrap of paper or piece of trash, call the cops if they slam the screen door etc. Eventually, the people will take their vouchers and move. There are more properties than people with vouchers.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by t45209

I'll be the first to acknowledge that S 8 isn't always bad. The Cambridge Arms behind Biggs in Oakley is a prime example of a clean, quiet, well-managed facility (probably doesn't hurt that majority of the tenants appear to be women in their 60s or 70s).

However, I met a guy from Westwood who bought a decent house for a good price, but only too late realized that the house next door was S 8 and it's been a real nightmare for him. His only hope now he thinks is to find someone that's as big a sucker as he was to buy his house and get out. It's really unfortunate.

Anyone have any ideas on how widespread S 8 is in Norwood?

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. What you want to avoid is neighborhoods with rental properties period, not just Section 8 rentals. Not that even that's any guarantee you won't get nightmare neighbors, but at least people living in their own homes MAY tend to maintain them better.

Rentals are everywhere now, though, given the implosion of the housing market. There are just fewer of them as prices go up. Home values in my subdivision range from $150K up to a couple properties in the $500K range, and several of them are now rented out by owners who had to move and couldn't sell.

The recent situation on my own street with the likely illegal basement tenants got me thinking, though. You want to try to avoid neighbor problems, move to the country.