If The Church is Israel…? (Torah, Jehovah, believe, scriptures)

[1689dave]

If The Church is Israel…?

Who then is Israel now in the Middle East? The simple answer is; those few who escaped Jerusalem’s destruction in 70AD and their converts. The reason these are not biblical Israel is that when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he ended the only means of making one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. “And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

So how then is the Church Israel? When God removed the unbelievers from Israel, only believers remained. "They are not all Israel, which are, of Israel . . . They which are the children of the flesh, these, are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom. 9:6, 8)

To the children of promise, God in fulfilling his promise to Abraham added believing gentiles from around the world. Paul recognizes this when he says “That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:” Ephesians 2:12 (KJV 1900) Meaning the believing gentiles are now part of the commonwealth of Israel.

Other passages confirm the same. “For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.” Acts 3:22–23 (KJV 1900)

Paul says “Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. He says; Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.” Galatians 6:15–16 (NIV) the obedience of believers confirms their residency in the Israel of God.

Also, research shows that the similarities between ancient Israel and the Church of the New Covenant are identical.

Called in the OT;

1. Saints (Num. 16:3: Deut. 33:3)
2. Elect (Deut. 7:6, 7; 14:2)
3. Beloved (Deut. 7:7; 4:37)
4. Called (Isa. 41:9; 43:1)
5. Church (Ps. 89:5; Mic. 2:5 (LXX) Act. 7:38; Heb. 2:12)
6. Flock (Ezek. 34; Ps. 77:20)
7. Holy Nation (Exod. 19:5, 6)
8. Kingdom of Priests (Exod.19:5, 6)
9. Peculiar Treasure (Exod. 19:5, 6)
10. God's People (Hos. 1:9, 10)
11. Holy People (Deut. 7:6)
12. People of Inheritance (Deut.4:20)
13. God's Tabernacle in Israel (Lev.26:11)
14. God walks among them (Lev. 26:12)
15. Twelve Patriarchs
16. Christ married to them (Isa.54:5; Jer.3:14; Hos.2:19; Jer.6:2; 31:32)

Called the same in the NT;

1. Saints (Eph. 1:1; Rom. 1:7)
2. Elect (Col. 3:12; Titus 1:1)
3. Beloved (Col.3:12; 1 Thess 1:4)
4. Called (Rom. 1:6, 7; 1Cor.1:2)
5. Church (Eph. 1:1; Acts 20:28)
6. Flock (Luke 12:32; 1 Pet. 5:2)
7. Holy Nation (1 Pet. 2:9)
8. Kingdom of Priests (1 Pet. 2:9)
9. Peculiar Treasure (1 Pet. 2:9)
10. God's People (1 Pet. 2:10)
11. Holy People (1 Pet. 1:15, 16)
12. People of Inheritance (Eph. 1:18)
13. God's Tabernacle in Church (John 1:14)
14. God walks among them (2 Cor.6:16-18)
15. Twelve Apostles
16. Christ married to them (Eph.5:22, 23; 2Cor.11:2)
Israel and the Church: See the Difference? | 1689 Federalism

"They are not all Israel, which are, of Israel . . . They which are the children of the flesh, these, are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom. 9:6, 8)

Paul calls Jesus Israel when he when he calls him Abraham’s seed. “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” Galatians 3:16 (KJV 1900)

Matthew also calls Jesus Israel when he quotes Hosea saying “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1) compare to; “And (Jesus) was there (in Egypt) until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

We who believe are members of Israel being members of Jesus’ body. “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Ephesians 5:30 (KJV 1900)

[BaptistFundie]

The church isn't Israel.

[CCCyou]

When someone asks this question, I always think, 'well, who is your mother?'
Why - well, Jewishness is determined by matrilineal descent - https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...o%20existence.
So, who is your mother?

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by CCCyou

When someone asks this question, I always think, 'well, who is your mother?'
Why - well, Jewishness is determined by matrilineal descent - https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...o%20existence.
So, who is your mother?

You didn't know my mom. Not relevant.

[Thoreau424]

The church isn't Israel, so we don't need to waste time further with the daydreaming and unnecessary "what-ifs?"

[1689dave]

Originally Posted by Thoreau424

The church isn't Israel, so we don't need to waste time further with the daydreaming and unnecessary "what-ifs?"

Scripture says the church is Israel. Prove the scriptures I quoted wrong.

[1689dave]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

The church isn't Israel.

Prove it is not. Don't just spout off.

[kjw47]

Originally Posted by 1689dave

If The Church is Israel…?

Who then is Israel now in the Middle East? The simple answer is; those few who escaped Jerusalem’s destruction in 70AD and their converts. The reason these are not biblical Israel is that when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he ended the only means of making one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. “And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

So how then is the Church Israel? When God removed the unbelievers from Israel, only believers remained. "They are not all Israel, which are, of Israel . . . They which are the children of the flesh, these, are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom. 9:6, 8)

To the children of promise, God in fulfilling his promise to Abraham added believing gentiles from around the world. Paul recognizes this when he says “That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:” Ephesians 2:12 (KJV 1900) Meaning the believing gentiles are now part of the commonwealth of Israel.

Other passages confirm the same. “For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.” Acts 3:22–23 (KJV 1900)

Paul says “Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. He says; Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.” Galatians 6:15–16 (NIV) the obedience of believers confirms their residency in the Israel of God.

Also, research shows that the similarities between ancient Israel and the Church of the New Covenant are identical.

Called in the OT;

1. Saints (Num. 16:3: Deut. 33:3)
2. Elect (Deut. 7:6, 7; 14:2)
3. Beloved (Deut. 7:7; 4:37)
4. Called (Isa. 41:9; 43:1)
5. Church (Ps. 89:5; Mic. 2:5 (LXX) Act. 7:38; Heb. 2:12)
6. Flock (Ezek. 34; Ps. 77:20)
7. Holy Nation (Exod. 19:5, 6)
8. Kingdom of Priests (Exod.19:5, 6)
9. Peculiar Treasure (Exod. 19:5, 6)
10. God's People (Hos. 1:9, 10)
11. Holy People (Deut. 7:6)
12. People of Inheritance (Deut.4:20)
13. God's Tabernacle in Israel (Lev.26:11)
14. God walks among them (Lev. 26:12)
15. Twelve Patriarchs
16. Christ married to them (Isa.54:5; Jer.3:14; Hos.2:19; Jer.6:2; 31:32)

Called the same in the NT;

1. Saints (Eph. 1:1; Rom. 1:7)
2. Elect (Col. 3:12; Titus 1:1)
3. Beloved (Col.3:12; 1 Thess 1:4)
4. Called (Rom. 1:6, 7; 1Cor.1:2)
5. Church (Eph. 1:1; Acts 20:28)
6. Flock (Luke 12:32; 1 Pet. 5:2)
7. Holy Nation (1 Pet. 2:9)
8. Kingdom of Priests (1 Pet. 2:9)
9. Peculiar Treasure (1 Pet. 2:9)
10. God's People (1 Pet. 2:10)
11. Holy People (1 Pet. 1:15, 16)
12. People of Inheritance (Eph. 1:18)
13. God's Tabernacle in Church (John 1:14)
14. God walks among them (2 Cor.6:16-18)
15. Twelve Apostles
16. Christ married to them (Eph.5:22, 23; 2Cor.11:2)
Israel and the Church: See the Difference? | 1689 Federalism

"They are not all Israel, which are, of Israel . . . They which are the children of the flesh, these, are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom. 9:6, 8)

Paul calls Jesus Israel when he when he calls him Abraham’s seed. “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” Galatians 3:16 (KJV 1900)

Matthew also calls Jesus Israel when he quotes Hosea saying “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1) compare to; “And (Jesus) was there (in Egypt) until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

We who believe are members of Israel being members of Jesus’ body. “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Ephesians 5:30 (KJV 1900)

Jesus told the Israelite spiritual leaders off at Matt 23. He assurred them in verse 38 they are cut off of being Gods chosen unless they do verse 39, They have outright refused for over 1950 years, they never will. Spiritual Israel, meaning Gods chosen are his people now. These serve the Abrahamic God that Israel served= YHWH(Jehovah) a single being God.

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by 1689dave

Prove it is not. Don't just spout off.

Romans 11 covers that. God still has a plan for Israel. The church doesn't replace them.

[Brightfame52]

dave

If The Church is Israel…?

It is

Who then is Israel now in the Middle East?

The physical nation of israel, now just like any other physical nation in the world today

The reason these are not biblical Israel is that when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he ended the only means of making one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. “And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

Interesting. Thats why the present nation of israel has no more relevance to God than any other physical nation, save only the remnant according to the election of grace which are from any and all nations.

So how then is the Church Israel? When God removed the unbelievers from Israel, only believers remained. "They are not all Israel, which are, of Israel . . . They which are the children of the flesh, these, are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom. 9:6, 8)

Agreed, also notice in the Rom 9:6-8 passage one of the Israels are the children of God, in contrast to the children of the flesh.

And if we read Rom 8:16 Paul speaking specifically to the Church comprised of both jew and gentile believers, He identifies them as the same " the children of God"

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:Israel

To the children of promise, God in fulfilling his promise to Abraham added believing gentiles from around the world. Paul recognizes this when he says “That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:” Ephesians 2:12 (KJV 1900) Meaning the believing gentiles are now part of the commonwealth of Israel.

Correct, that is very precise, that believing gentiles are now joined to remnant Israel, or here called the commonwealth