Next (ban) up for California: no gas furnaces or water heaters (Paradise: sale, appliances)

[GuyInSD]

Just saw this in the news:
"the California Air Resources Board (CARB) voted Thursday to ban the sale of new gas furnaces and water heaters beginning in 2030. Homes will be required to install zero-emissions alternatives, like electric heaters."

I looked on CARB's website for additional information, but didn't see anything obvious there regarding this.

I'll have to set a reminder for myself to get a new water heater in 2029, as getting one after that will mean paying to add a new 240V line.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Yet our grid can't handle even mild heatwaves which we've had for, since we've existed as humans. Makes sense.

[citizensadvocate]

I be curious whether this affects Generic natural gas automatic generators which they often use in places that often gets public safety shutoffs.

Its interesting how states with low per capita kwh use are states that widely use natural gas for domestic cooking and water heating. States with high per capita kwh often use electric water heating. Those electric water heaters take practically forever to heat up. Same with electric dryers in my experience taking multiple cycles to dry clothes compared to gas dryers. And they consume 6kwh per hour when used. So one may use 150kwh a month ust to dry clothes and 250 kwh to heat water a month average, and the figure is considerably higher during the winter months.

[mgforshort]

Our last 2 PG&E bills were $ 0.36 per kilowatt hour. If we must use electric heat in the winter our bills could rise from the current $ 399 / month to $ 7-900 per month and we don't have brutally cold winters here in Paradise. Our NG gas bill last month was only $ 7 for the water heater, Rinnai tankless.

The big question is if existing appliances on NG are allowed to be repaired after 2030 or they must be replaced. The poor has nothing to worry about, they will get subsidies, and the rich can afford it no matter how expensive. The middle class will pay until we bleed to death or move somewhere else.

I'd love to see a statewide proposition, something like: "Any ban, past, current or future ban, from the sale of ice cream to big diesel trucks and anything else must be approved by 75% of the registered voters".

Look the way Europeans are facing freezing to death this winter due to the war and their poor energy choices in the name of the new green deal.

[NORTY FLATZ]

Does this mean the CNG (compressed natural gas) buses have to park, too?

After we spent all those millions....

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by GuyInSD

Just saw this in the news:
"the California Air Resources Board (CARB) voted Thursday to ban the sale of new gas furnaces and water heaters beginning in 2030. Homes will be required to install zero-emissions alternatives, like electric heaters."

I looked on CARB's website for additional information, but didn't see anything obvious there regarding this.

I'll have to set a reminder for myself to get a new water heater in 2029, as getting one after that will mean paying to add a new 240V line.

I don't imagine converting from gas to electric is as expensive as it is to go from electric to gas. Still, with a tad over 50% of California residents using natural gas, this could cause some concern. Home with existing gas may not be required to change over until the unit fails.

I absolutely agree with your idea to replace your water heater before 2030. If you need it and can afford to do so, replace your furnace as well. I had to replace my HVAC system last Fall. The company I used threw in a new 40-gal water heater to boot. I'm good to go for the next 20 years (hopefully). Although I doubt I'll be here.

Things are going to get a lot more difficult and expensive for homeowners living in older homes if they are forced to convert. This page (2021 data) shows a breakdown of the percentage of the population using natural gas in California. Data for 2022 isn't out yet.

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repor...ric-generation

[mgforshort]

I believe being woke and progressive might eventually pass like a really bad flu and all these idiotic bans could be reversed. Pay attention to this coming winter in Europe, as people huddle in groups in their heating centers when the gas runs out, and we might learn from it.

[saibot]

Originally Posted by mgforshort

I believe being woke and progressive might eventually pass like a really bad flu and all these idiotic bans could be reversed.

You mean like Covid? Don't hold your breath; lots of people are holding on to that too. Although I really hope you are right.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

Things are going to get a lot more difficult and expensive for homeowners living in older homes if they are forced to convert.

True, but it's not a blanket retrofit mandate so they won't be. The gist of this is to remove availability of NG replacement units for things like heaters, etc., and de-incentivize new construction from even installing NG delivery at all. The two big takeaways from the link in the original post are: "The (CARB) vote is designed to meet EPA regulations limiting ozone in the atmosphere to 70 parts per billion. Much of California still exceeds that limit." and the fact that this will only address at maximum, 5% of NOX emissions anyway. It seems to me CARB is grasping at some low-hanging fruit. Also, that former quote suggests this is all meant to address Federal regulations but how that works isn't totally clear.

[JGC97]

True, Joosoon and I have to remind myself that all this change will take years, maybe a decade or two before everything is converted.