Shed-Permit or No Permit? (Austin, Post: 2013, power lines, loft)

[Ms Doe]

I am unable to locate any of the requirements/restrictions on the City of Austin's website for when a building permit is and isn't required for a shed in my back yard. About half of the links are broken, it appears.

From calling their office, I've been told that it needs to be 5 feet from the side property line, 10 feet from power lines, and 200 or fewer square feet.

What I cannot find out is whether the loft or attic is considered a 2nd story, and if that is calculated in the 200 sq. ft. maximum or is it just the footprint of the bottom floor of the shed that is counted?

At a certain height, does it become a 2nd story? What height is that if it's still 15ft or less?

This is a shed. it's not finished out, has no plumbing or electricity.

Can I have a set of steps on the outside leading to the 2nd floor/attic or do the stairs have to be on the inside?

My neighbor called the city and they sent a code enforcement officer who was very nice but didn't know the answer about the 2nd story/attic floor counting in the 200 max. sq. ft. he didn't issue a stop work order. We had read we didn't need a permit, so we are trying to remodel a half built shed so that it meets the requirements of not needing a permit but they appear to be impossible to find for Austin, TX.

The office is only open Mon., Wed. & Fri. from 8 am to 11 am. You can't download any forms from the website. Folks talk about waiting in line for 3 hrs. once they get there.

Anyone know the answers to my questions, please?
Thank you!

[CptnRn]

Check out this thread, it quotes several statements that I found on the City webpages back at that time. The City revamped its website and broke most of those urls, but the statements probably still apply. Looks to me like the 200 sf includes all floors and the setback restrictions say they are allowed for only a one story accessory building.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/austi...lace-my-2.html

[Ms Doe]

well, technically, if it says no more than one story "or" no more than 15 ft, then you only have to meet one of the criteria. if the requirement is that it can't be two story, why wouldn't it be worded "no more than one story that is 15 or less feet in height"? "and" means you have to meet both requirements.

so, what's the different between an attic/loft and a 2nd story? it's a waste of space to have a 15ft high shed and not put an attic or 2nd floor in it. if i cut a big hole in the 2nd floor and just make big shelves all the way around, is that considered one or two stories?

seems like square footage should be figured on the impervious ground cover or footprint, which I'm told is 45% in SF2 zones. i live in a 2 story house and the attic floor isn't calculated in the sq. footage, is it?

not trying to argue...i really do appreciate the input! it's so frustrating...i talked to a person at the city this morning and they won't give you the answer of whether or not you need a permit over the phone...they want me to come down and wait in line for 3 hrs. until they close. they said i could bring in a picture of it as it is now, even though i'm trying to modify it so i don't need a permit. i've been told by some builders that if you get a permit, then they use that as an opportunity to make you bring everything else in your yard and house up to code.

the person at the city did say to look at ordinance #20130606-055, section 105.2
i'm getting ready to do that.

thanks for any and all comments!
Ms Doe

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Ms Doe

well, technically, if it says no more than one story "or" no more than 15 ft, then you only have to meet one of the criteria.

You've got it backwards. One of the (two) criteria will disqualify you from the non-standard setback (5 feet is smaller than the usual setback).

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by Novacek

You've got it backwards. One of the (two) criteria will disqualify you from the non-standard setback (5 feet is smaller than the usual setback).

5 feet is the normal side yard setback, 10 feet is the normal rear yard setback.

[gpurcell]

An attic isn't a story, else every bungalow in Austin would be two stories. Steps into an attic don't make it a story either.

Edit: Your 15' high shed doesn't have a flat roof. Assuming a reasonable 8' ceiling in the bottom that means the space above would range from 7 feet to 4 or 5 feet. That's an attic with knee walls, not a story.

[Ms Doe]

I appreciate all the information!

I agree about the attic...wish me luck convincing the code folks. Yes, the 15 ft. shed has a barn shaped roof (curved sides) and it's about 7 ft. from roof to attic floor, and 8ft from attic floor to ground floor. We were originally going to have steps from the outside going to the attic but have since been advised that it's easier to convince them it's an attic if it has only the pull-down/fold up attic stairs in the inside. If the city isn't convinced it's an attic with knee walls, then I guess we'll knock the middle of the attic floor so it's open from the ground to the peak, and leave "shelves" on all 4 sides.

I read the revised code of 2013 and it is now worded this way: "A permit is not required for activities listed in Subsections R105.2.1 or R105.2.2 of this section. Exemption from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. [I wish I could find the other provisions of this code...anyone know where?]

1. Building
a. One-story detached accessory structures used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses and similar uses, provided the floor area does not exceed 200 square feet (18.58 m2), does not create a habitable space and contains no plumbing or is located within flood hazard areas provided they are not located within a flood hazard area."

so, no mention here of the 15 ft. but I guess it's in the regular code? It does not prohibit an attic; How square footage is calculated is still not clear; does it count the attic floor plus the ground floor? This also does not mention electricity.

The guy at the city was all worried about the "attic" and whether we were 10 feet from the back easement so I have to take him the map of our lot (whatever that's called) that shows it. We live on Little Walnut Creek and our property goes to the middle of the creek. It's a 27 foot steep drop to the creek but the new shed is 10 or more feet from the back fence and I assume the easement is on the other side of our fence. The city couldn't get equipment back there even if it had wings. Any work done in the creek is approached from the other side where it's not as steep.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Ms Doe

I assume the easement is on the other side of our fence.

Why assume? You got a survey when you bought the place, it shows the easements.

[Ms Doe]

hmmmm...i typed a big paragraph w/ all kinds of details and i guess i forgot to hit "Post reply". grrrr...

i'll try, again. here's how our survey reads:

creek
5 ft maintenance and drainage easement
10 ft sanitary sewer easement
15 ft building line (what does this mean? is runs into the 5 ft building easement lines on each side of the property)
50 ft drainage easement (15 ft building line falls in the rear of this section)
fence
old shed (does it have to be 10 ft. from the fence or 10 ft. from the building easement? can I push the fence back into the drainage easement?)
power lines
new shed will be 10 ft. from power lines, 5 feet from side fence, less than 200 sq. ft (unless the attic floor is counted).
back of house

[hillcountryheart]

This is beyond the scope of this forum. I'd get a consultation from an attorney who specializes in construction issues - well worth your money unless you're willing to tear down the shed if need be.

If your neighbor is already irritated by the "shed," no matter how irrational or mean-spirited s/he may be, they may not stop post-construction and you will need to have an approved permit from the City.

If you wish to continue discussing the "shed" here, it would help to know exactly what you're using it for; whether or not it matches your house in terms of design/quality of build; and if possible, you should speak to the neighbor to find out what their concerns are with respect to the "shed." Having these concerns available and addressed (if possible) will go a long way, because it's possible to get a variance. But it's a lot harder if your neighbor is already "concerned."