Could Brightline connect us to Florida?

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

Actually, Atlanta is surrounded by more cities, The piedmont megalopolis is more populated than the Florida megalopolis.

Greenville is 975k MSA, 1.6 mil MSA.
Charlotte is 2.8 mil MSA 3.4 mil MSA
Greensboro 790k MSA Greensboro/Winston-Salem 1.7 mil CSA
Raleigh is 1.5 mil MSA, Raleigh–Durham 2.3 million.

Plus Atlanta and Birmingham that's 17.9 million just on the corridor. that actually more than Florida peninsula, let alone Florida Brightline route 15 mil.



It's funny there more videos on Youtube talking about the non existing Cascadia as megalopolis then the Piedmont. Which is on most overtly oblivious things looking at US map

Maybe because Georgia doesn't have any other large metro people mistake that as Atlanta is isolated.. Florida is elongated North and South. But The piedmont is Northeast to Southwest elongated and The Piedmont is more than Florida peninsula.

All three of NC largest metros are on the piedmont. SC is more balance with Columbia, and Charleston but still it's largest MSA/CSA is on the piedmont. Georgia no comment. Alabama while actually the Cumberland plateu it still follows the pattern of the piedmont cities.

There have been talks High speed rail connecting The piedmont cities for decades. But one thing not mention in this thread is the US Airline and auto industry against rail. They have lobbyist and influence on politicians. That maybe one of the reasons Brightline is private.

The issue with your general premise is your expanding distance to come up with that 17.9 million.

A stretch from Birmingham to Raleigh is over 550 miles on a fairly direct interstate route.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Birm...!3e0?entry=ttu

Brightline in Florida is only 230 miles long. Add 80 miles to extend to Tampa.

We are still talking about double the distance and there is no existing freight track that isn't busy. A major advantage Brightline had at using the Florida East Coast Railway affordably.

These 2 things alone would increase the cost over what Brightline was able to do in Florida a few times over, which would make it difficult for a private investment firm without larger amounts of public financing.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

But those are all in other states so it would be part of an interstate rail system rather than Georgia's own, or as Brightline is Florida's own thing currently.

It would have to be because that how the population actually is. but just cause it's different states doesn't change the proximity, the piedmont cities are just as close to each other as the Florida cities are. Though it is probably more of political hassle since it's interstate.

But base on what you said before to include the mountains and the beaches. There would have to be a loop that include the coast. There have studies to connect Atlanta to savannah. And Savanah could connect to the Florida and Carolina cities. but A loop of the Piedmont cities and GA/Carolinians coast would be amazing.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

The issue with your general premise is your expanding distance to come up with that 17.9 million.

A stretch from Birmingham to Raleigh is over 550 miles on a fairly direct interstate route.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Birm...!3e0?entry=ttu

Brightline in Florida is only 230 miles long. Add 80 miles to extend to Tampa.

We are still talking about double the distance and there is no existing freight track that isn't busy. A major advantage Brightline had at using the Florida East Coast Railway affordably.

These 2 things alone would increase the cost over what Brightline was able to do in Florida a few times over, which would make it difficult for a private investment firm without larger amounts of public financing.

I boded specifically what I was replying you over, I didn't mention anything about freight tracks, I agree with you here on that. but that's not I replied to.

You said, "The problem we have is we are too far away from other sizable metropolitan cities." that's not true.

Also........... you could take Birmingham out, just Atlanta to Raleigh, it would be 16.6 million in 413.

Florida would be 14.6 mi in 320

The difference is 90 miies. but also, The Piedmont still has connected 2 million more people. Either or saying Atlanta is "too far away from other sizable metropolitan cities" is a reach. With all The problems to connect HSR to other cities Atlanta's Proxity to other sizable metros is not one of them, was my point.

[cwkimbro]

The context of being too far is said in the scope of being able to attract and utilize private investment.

This appears to hold true as we haven't attracted private investors. Brightline was able to connect a city of nearly 7 million with a CSA of nearly 4 and half million over just 230 miles, which is a key sweet spot at selling train tickets for.

Most things a private operator will need to do will be 25-50% further.

[architect77]

In my opinion, with the drive being 10 hours from Atlanta to Miami, flying is most appropriate.

NC used Obama's high speed rail grant many years ago (~$600 million) to beef up its intrastate rail track infrastructure. They doubled track in places, built Union Station in Raleigh, and are building a new freight terminal in Charlotte.

The result has been record setting ridership in North Carolina, expanding to 4 or 5 daily roundtrips between Charlotte and Raleigh. Tickets are $26 each way which is roughly equal to the cost of driving (gas plus car wear and tear).

I-85 through South Carolina is exploding with industrial growth, adding to what was already one of the nation's top industrial corridor.

I think the next best focus would be connecting Atlanta to the Southern end of NC's thriving rail service at Charlotte.

The costs for these types of projects today is staggering however. The federal government recently awarded over $1 billion for a new, higher speed, rail line from Raleigh to Richmond (the Northeast Corridor's new Southern terminus). It involves resurrecting the abandoned S-line which beelines from Raleigh to Richmond.

That sounded like a lot of money until Pete Buttigieg came to Raleigh's Union Station for the press release. That $1 billion will only complete 15 miles of the route to (Raleigh suburb) town of Wake Forest.

Track will have to be re-installed along another 120 miles or so reach Petersburg, VA before faster service will be realized. Estimates ranged at $4-6 billion 10 years ago, probably double that now. Currently Amtrak goes through Rocky Mount, NC between Richmond and Raleigh. The goal is a 3 hr. trip time between Raleigh and D.C., but it will likely be decades before coming to fruition.

$1B Rail Grant for Higher Speed NC-VA
https://abc11.com/railroad-investmen...lion/14165821/





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[arjay57]

I'd say go ahead and hook up the ATL with HSR in Florida and North Carolina, and run a line to Savannah as well. Why in the heck not?

You might not get zillions of riders but there will be enough to make it worthwhile.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by MichiganderTexan

Yes I'd argue Florida as a State is greater than Texas too despite Texas having a larger population and larger cities.

That's like comparing Shingles to Hemorrhoids.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'd say go ahead and hook up the ATL with HSR in Florida and North Carolina, and run a line to Savannah as well. Why in the heck not?

You might not get zillions of riders but there will be enough to make it worthwhile.

I think ATL to SAV should be where to start, and then could potentially connect to Jacksonville where they eventually plan to run the Brightline to. Also in the other direction from ATL to Nashville I think would be more beneficial than to Charlotte or Birmingham.

Originally Posted by MichiganderTexan

Yes I'd argue Florida as a State is greater than Texas too despite Texas having a larger population and larger cities.

Speaking of TX, during PM of Japan's recent meeting with Pres. Biden one of the discussions was the bullet train project from Dallas to Houston, which originally like the Brightline was supposed to be privately funded.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

Speaking of TX, during PM of Japan's recent meeting with Pres. Biden one of the discussions was the bullet train project from Dallas to Houston, which originally like the Brightline was supposed to be privately funded.

I am okay with getting the Japanese to build it if that's what it takes.