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AZ desperately mass transit. Driving more than 2 hours is insane. It took 5 hours to to drive to Grand canyon from Yuma. That drive sucked.
Tombstone is the same distance.
My car could have broken down and I could died in the desert or hit a giant elk.
Also, the yuma train station and bus station are supershady. Even I would open carry there.
the amtrak from LA to yuma was very convenient except it was in the middle of the night.
there are no trains or buses from yuma to the grand canyon, sedona, and tombstone. That's tourism money right there.
I already wrote to the mayor of yuma, the governor, and amtrak about this.
no response so far.
It would be great if the whole world had mass transit. The problem is that it has to be somewhat cost-effective which only occurs in densely-crowded cities and on heavily traveled routes.
Mass Transit is extremely expensive to build and to operate. Car travel is still typically the most cost-effective for shorter distances and jets for longer distances. (Most people refuse to use public buses.)
Amtrak, for example, has been a huge money-loser since it's inception. The North-East Corridor is just about the only somewhat cost-effective route it serves.
For decades there have been efforts to launch a high-speed train from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. Another is the San Francisco-Los Angeles boondoggle. Neither will probably ever be completed.
I would not expect to find mass-transit from the Grand Canyon to Yuma, ever!
I would agree with you but I'm moving anyway, so I couldn't care less what becomes of PHX. Frankly, I think if you want better public transit you're best moving elsewhere. Especially since the heat's so extreme, you can barely go out during the summer, much less enjoy it. I don't think PHX is worth staying in anymore.
If I recall correctly, you were arguing before the pandemic that rideshare services augmented by blockchain would change everything. Others believed that autonomous vehicles would make public transport as we know it obsolete. Neither prediction came true, and no one is talking about those prospects much these days.
Rideshare has taken been impacted since the pandemic began and I could talk about that subject for hours, however most of it would be off topic from this thread. However I still believe the trends in automation and technology will play out over time. Tech has done well in the pandemic and I believe it will continue to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by exit2lef
Now, the prediction is that the pandemic will change everything permanently. Maybe in some ways, but it will take years before we really know that. The 1918 flu pandemic, as awful as it was, did not result in many permanent changes. The desire to return to normalcy should not be underestimated.
Look I get it, it may sound far fetched to you. If someone in 2015 would have said to me, Lavoi where do you see yourself in five years, I would NOT have said "spending 23 hours a day inside my house".
I understand there is a desire to return to normalcy, however we have to realize just because something is desired, does not mean things will work out that way. The statement "The desire to return to normalcy should not be underestimated." is a bumper sticker, not a solution. The 1918 flu pandemic was a totally different environment, and the world was not as interconnected then as it is now. My solution is the prepare for drastically reduced tax revenue and prepare workers to handle working remotely when possible.
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Originally Posted by exit2lef
Nevertheless, there are plenty of people awkwardly juggling childcare, remote schooling, and working from home in environments never designed for those activities. There are also plenty of employees who never stopped commuting to work because their jobs just couldn't be done remotely.
Businesses will continue to see the reduced costs associated with working from home. I also believe more people will start to demand working from home.
Working from home in 2009 was a pipe dream for most as the average internet connection in the US was 5 mbps or less. In 2020 the internet speed has increased by a factor of 10. Sure there are some scenarios where remotely working doesn't make sense. Overall we are going to see many positions go remote permanently and the demand for commercial real estate will also go down.
In addition, so many people have lost income and employment in the past six months that fewer people will be able to afford cars for commuting or necessary errands. To allow a black swan event like this pandemic to bring about further disinvestment in public transit would be remarkably short-sighted.
You don't need an expensive car for small errands. If you really don't want to drive then use one of the many rideshare delivery services. Driving from Yuma to the Grand Canyon does NOT require public transit be built specifically for that. In that scenario you would need a reliable car.
Last edited by DatBoiLavoi; 09-22-2020 at 02:25 PM..
Driving from Yuma to the Grand Canyon does NOT require public transit be built specifically for that. In that scenario you would need a reliable car.
For the millionth time, I've never advocated that. In fact, I went out of my way in first reply in this thread to point out why direct rail service between Yuma and the Grand Canyon was neither feasible nor desirable. Fortunately, in the Phoenix Metro Area, where public transit expansion still makes a great deal of sense, the projects reaffirmed in the 2019 election are moving forward even as we debate their value. At the federal level, the Trump Administration's efforts to curtail grants for transit projects failed to gain congressional support, even when both houses were under Republican control. If rail transit opponents want to try a fifth time to change our course, their next opportunity will come in a few years when the countywide Proposition 400 transportation tax is up for renewal. That will be an interesting opportunity to see how much things have really changed due to the pandemic.
New York City will have to reimagine itself if it wants to survive. People no longer need to drive to work. Internet bandwidth has increased making it possible for a large amount of the workforce to be remote. I guess all it took was a pandemic to make companies realize this was possible. It would be nice if internet infrastructure was further revamped, but I think that will take a while as long as we keep spending money on mass transit instead of on the future.
I think a lot of the older generation is just not getting that. I mean look, another poster is bringing up what light rail use was for the last 12 years. Who cares what the trends were in 2019 and before, that's not the reality we are in now. Obviously we aren't going back to a 2019 way of living anytime soon.
I'm 30 and an software engineer who has worked remote for years. I'm telling you it's possible to have large amounts of office type work handled remotely. Sure not every job can be done remotely but I think automation will continue to replace some of those positions with the overall effect being that people drive less and stay home more often. It's cheaper for companies to hire remote employees than it is to pay them high wages so that they can live within commuting distance to the office.
At my office we no longer even fly out to meet with clients. Everything is handled via Skype or AnyMeeting.
What you fail to understand is: although working remotely has definitely increased, the technology making it possible to permanently work from a home office is still sketchy at best. I'll use my company as an example. Most of us have been working from home since late spring, and that was pretty much forced onto all of us suddenly due to the COVID scare. While most of the systems we use are compatible for working outside the office, some of them still have glitches, especially video conferencing. Most employees are using cell phones or laptops for conferencing, and the video & audio are often choppy, with the conferences timing out or going completely dead in many cases.
Regardless of what you claim regarding better internet bandwidth, the remote technology in most cases is still not up to par compared to the office systems. Besides, virtual meetings are just not as effective or productive as being in a physical conference room with management & working professionals. Non virtual/non electronic interaction with co workers is an important part of the working world. Maybe you as a 30 year old software engineer can't understand this concept, but I've been in the working world a lot longer than you've been alive, and most of what you're stating about a large amount of the workforce being remote is something that won't happen unless more companies pitch in and supply all the advanced technology for their employees. Quite frankly, since most larger companies wish to trim expenses, and are looking out for their profits & shareholders first & foremost, I don't really see this happening ... especially since many companies have recently invested millions into new office buildings in recent years.
Back to mass transit: I think we both agree that it's ridiculous to even consider a widespread transit system across Arizona. Transit systems need to be where the demand is highest, and that would be in the major cities. In Phoenix, that would be mainly confined to the central core, a part of west Phoenix, and some inner ring suburbs like Tempe & west Mesa. The planned light rail routes to the suburban shopping malls seriously need to be reconsidered.
What you fail to understand is: although working remotely has definitely increased, the technology making it possible to permanently work from a home office is still sketchy at best. I'll use my company as an example. Most of us have been working from home since late spring, and that was pretty much forced onto all of us suddenly due to the COVID scare. While most of the systems we use are compatible for working outside the office, some of them still have glitches, especially video conferencing. Most employees are using cell phones or laptops for conferencing, and the video & audio are often choppy, with the conferences timing out or going completely dead in many cases.
I'm not sure how to respond to that. VPN's have been around for a while now and work perfectly fine if they're setup correctly. There are also plenty of software programs for teleconferencing e.g. Skype, GoToMeeting, Microsoft Teams, AnyMeeting, etc. I unfortunately have to use all of them on a regular basis due to the nature of my work. I personally have not experienced issues with any of these products.
I would bring your issues up with IT or your manager.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
Regardless of what you claim regarding better internet bandwidth, the remote technology in most cases is still not up to par compared to the office systems. Besides, virtual meetings are just not as effective or productive as being in a physical conference room with management & working professionals. Non virtual/non electronic interaction with co workers is an important part of the working world. Maybe you as a 30 year old software engineer can't understand this concept, but I've been in the working world a lot longer than you've been alive, and most of what you're stating about a large amount of the workforce being remote is something that won't happen unless more companies pitch in and supply all the advanced technology for their employees. Quite frankly, since most larger companies wish to trim expenses, and are looking out for their profits & shareholders first & foremost, I don't really see this happening ... especially since many companies have recently invested millions into new office buildings in recent years.
Yeah I will admit that the US has fallen behind as far as internet infrastructure goes. There is definite room for improvement there. It seems like you're almost trying to attack me personally in some of the paragraph, so I'll ignore those points. I hate to be the prophet of doom by bringing these points up, but I'm not the only one who thinks like this. I'm just following the trends, and decentralization and work from home are ongoing trends that started before Covid-19.The pandemic is just waking a lot of businesses up to the possibility of work from home.
Look at it from a companies perspective. Do I really want all the fixed and variable costs that are involved with having to create and maintain a big office space that's comfortable for everyone to work in? Can I afford to pay all of these employees enough so they can live within commuting distance? What about talented workers that live in another geographic area? I think if you look at it from that perspective you'll see the cost savings.
I also believe workers will also demand working from home more than they have in previous years. I mean for one, there's a pandemic going on so if you go into the office, contract the virus and go home, you may end up killing your elderly parents that live with you. No one wants that.
However lets take the pandemic out of this point. There was a survey in the NY Times that showed the majority of Americans liked working at home. Look at some peoples commutes, do you think they want to do that everyday just to do a job they could just as easily do from home? An office cubical is what like a 6x6 enclosure.. and you have to be best friends with all of your cubical mates and share a bathroom with them. I mean in jail you at least get a 8x8 cell and you get your own bathroom.. and just to clarify you can have loving intimate relationships in jail, but you cannot in the company office.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
Back to mass transit: I think we both agree that it's ridiculous to even consider a widespread transit system across Arizona. Transit systems need to be where the demand is highest, and that would be in the major cities. In Phoenix, that would be mainly confined to the central core, a part of west Phoenix, and some inner ring suburbs like Tempe & west Mesa. The planned light rail routes to the suburban shopping malls seriously need to be reconsidered.
Can we afford to build mass transit throughout Phoenix? Will anyone utilize it if we did? We can't look to the past for these answers, we will have to look to the future. I do want to point out that malls are dying, and Phoenix metro area really only needs one or two malls at most. If you look at Arrowhead and Chandler, both malls seem to be going downhill. We don't need to build transit to take people to these malls, there is not enough demand to do so.
Last edited by DatBoiLavoi; 09-23-2020 at 12:43 PM..
I'm not sure how to respond to that. VPN's have been around for a while now and work perfectly fine if they're setup correctly. There are also plenty of software programs for teleconferencing e.g. Skype, GoToMeeting, Microsoft Teams, AnyMeeting, etc. I unfortunately have to use all of them on a regular basis due to the nature of my work. I personally have not experienced issues with any of these products.
I would bring your issues up with IT or your manager.
It has been brought up numerous times to our tech support, but again, the main issue is: how much are companies willing to invest in upgrading these systems? Even then, are there any programs which offer the same interactive quality as being physically present in an office environment? Personally, I haven't seen any, but maybe you have as a software tech. All I know is my job function falls on the receiving end of this technology, and virtual communication as a whole contains audio that has about the same sound quality as the old cassette players from before your time. In addition, virtual meetings are known to freeze and shut down frequently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatBoiLavoi
Yeah I will admit that the US has fallen behind as far as internet infrastructure goes. There is definite room for improvement there. It seems like you're almost trying to attack me personally in some of the paragraph, so I'll ignore those points. I hate to be the prophet of doom by bringing these points up, but I'm not the only one who thinks like this. I'm just following the trends, and decentralization and work from home are ongoing trends that started before Covid-19.The pandemic is just waking a lot of businesses up to the possibility of work from home.
Look at it from a companies perspective. Do I really want all the fixed and variable costs that are involved with having to create and maintain a big office space that's comfortable for everyone to work in? Can I afford to pay all of these employees enough so they can live within commuting distance? What about talented workers that live in another geographic area? I think if you look at it from that perspective you'll see the cost savings.
I also believe workers will also demand working from home more than they have in previous years. I mean for one, there's a pandemic going on so if you go into the office, contract the virus and go home, you may end up killing your elderly parents that live with you. No one wants that.
However lets take the pandemic out of this point. There was a survey in the NY Times that showed the majority of Americans liked working at home. Look at some peoples commutes, do you think they want to do that everyday just to do a job they could just as easily do from home? An office cubical is what like a 6x6 enclosure.. and you have to be best friends with all of your cubical mates and share a bathroom with them. I mean in jail you at least get a 8x8 cell and you get your own bathroom.. and just to clarify you can have loving intimate relationships in jail, but you cannot in the company office.
There was no personal attack intended, but unfortunately, I have dealt frequently with software/tech support, and usually with a not very pleasant experience (largely from different mindsets at work). While working remotely is increasing in demand, we can't make the assumption that all companies & their staff are ready to go this route. At least 10 people in my own business, including my direct manager, can't wait for the day when they can return to the office because working from home is more problematic than beneficial ... either due to family matters, having an older or cheaper P.C., internet connection issues, etc. For me personally, working from home is a mixed bag of benefits and drawbacks: less commuting and saving on gas are 2 benefits I'm sure most people agree with, but the sketchy technology and less personal interaction with colleagues are 2 drawbacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatBoiLavoi
Can we afford to build mass transit throughout Phoenix? Will anyone utilize it if we did? We can't look to the past for these answers, we will have to look to the future. I do want to point out that malls are dying, and Phoenix metro area really only needs one or two malls at most. If you look at Arrowhead and Chandler, both malls seem to be going downhill. We don't need to build transit to take people to these malls, there is not enough demand to do so.
I understand your point on mass transit, but I look at it this way: the government spends much more of our money on things like public schools, health care, public assistance, and other "safety nets" which benefit a rather small fraction of the population, and demand a lot of our tax money. Cost wise, mass transit in Phoenix amounts to barely a drop in the bucket comparatively speaking. Light rail expansion needs to move forward because the majority of the voters approved it, but the planned routes need a serious overhaul. It should be concentrated mostly in the centralized urban areas where the demand for it is the highest. There is very little demand for light rail extensions to shopping malls which are rapidly becoming vacant eyesores.
Sorry to interrupt, but the Grand Canyon already has mass transit, and not just buses, but rail service to boot.
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