AZ minimum wage increases question? (purchasing, university, wages)

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by man4857

Didn't "plan" their life? Everyone's situation is different. Do you think people plan or willingly want to work minimum wage jobs? They can only do what's in their control, the rest is dictated by the economy and the free market. Some people will come out ahead and others won't. And you even dare even suggest someone didn't "plan" their life because they're stuck working minimum wage? Sounds like you're the entitled one here.

Be real? Preventing someone from going hungry and/or homeless is as real as it gets. I don't know what real are you talking about. All you're stating is a fairness question, not reality.

Here's another reality check for you. Let's say we have the best people in the world and somehow they all got better jobs. Who do you think will work the lower paid jobs then? Who will work at fast food joints? You think they all can disappear and suddenly get better jobs? The free market will drive the wages of those "good" jobs down due to supply and the wages of the lower wage occupations up due to demand. But oh hey, plan your life better is your response.

People make choices and many of those choices are the easy way out to avoid having to work hard and accomplish something. There should be consequences for these choices. Entry level positions should not be "living wages" and people should have to work hard to better themselves and get to the point of earning a living wage.

Typical of so many in society today, want something without having to put in the time or work to actually earn it.

My brother and sister made the CHOICE to stay in the small town we grew up in after high school. There were no jobs and no comfortable future for making that choice. It was the easy and comfortable choice so that is the way they went and were broke until the day they each died in their 40's.

I wanted more so I made choices that would lead to a comfortable future for myself and my family.

95% of peoples situation are due to choices they make. We should not reward poor choices or choosing to not put in the work required to move ahead in life.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by man4857

The correct term is "survival wage" not "living wage".

"Living wage" makes people assume oh yeah, buy a house and car on that wage. That's not the intention. The intention is to make sure you can survive and not be homeless by working full time. This includes rent, food, clothing, and basic transportation. Medical is already taken care of by Medicare type programs.

Whatever BS term you use does not hide the fact that this is a thread about the minimum wage.

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by AZ_Rookie

At $15 minimum wage - when cost of living goes up (because of it), socialist will be screaming for $20 (to pour a cup of coffee or punch a cash register).

Minimum wage jobs are best suited for those going to school (so they can "earn" a living wage) or a second source of income (to be combined with additional income in order to pay for food and housing and raise a family).

This BS that people should be able to do minimum wage jobs and pay rent/mortgage / raise family, etc is ridiculous.

Why do you get this idea that minimum wage jobs are just working at fast foods? If you get old or disabled, you are likely to need support from destitute home health aides to look after you at minimum wage. Same with nursing assistants.

You are pushing for massive third world immigration to America as the job market you'd like to see is flooded with terrible drudgery jobs at awful pay. Whats so great about that?

[PhoenixSomeday]

This theory that minimum wage jobs are for kids, old retired people, and people who only need it as a minor supplement is exactly that, a theory. REALITY is another story. People have to take these jobs to survive. Ever since the crash, despite financial numbers indicating a recovery, employers have not resumed their previous hiring and pay practices. It remains really, really hard to get a job even with education and experience. Employers are extremely picky and stingy now and they know they can be. No matter how hard you work, how good your resume is, there exists a very real chance that you are among the significant number of people who can't get a job. For every good job posted, 100-300 people apply to it; at least half of which are qualified. There are only so many jobs; not everyone is going to get a $60k+ white collar job. There are many more people than there are good jobs; qualified people are going to be left out and there's not a damned thing anyone can do about it.

As this fallacy that people are poor and don't get opportunities is by choice has got to go. Do you know how effing hard it is to move up a social class? Do you KNOW how hard it is to not be poor? When you're poor, everything is stacked against you and there's little you can do about it, even if you fight, claw, scratch, bite, and work as hard as you can. You aren't networked with people you need to be networked with in order to get higher chances for an opportunity, and it's hard to build those networks from scratch. You can't pay for things like education because your income has to be so low you are nearly homeless. "Oh you make $24? So, since you're rich, you're rich and can't get this aid/grant/loan/scholarship/whatever!" Um, yeah, ok, thanks. I'll um, look at my numbers or something. These are just two of many examples why being born into a poor family is usually a lifelong sentence. Most of the rare few who get out are severely out of touch with reality and think that all they did was work really hard, when in reality some huge stroke of luck came their way, which is NOT common. Those not born poor are going to have no clue about this reality.

[Burning Madolf]

It's sad really that a thread about minimum wage in AZ and a discussion of the multitude of potential unintended consequences runs off the rails so far that some mod will cruise by and eventually close it.

I wish people who want to extrapolate to the extreme would start their own threads in the appropriate forums.

This is an important topic with extremely long tentacles and hopefully this thread will stay open so people can exchange actual experiences on the impact (good and bad) of the new minimum wage without getting it closed because of grandiose modern political thought debates.

[AZ_Rookie]

Originally Posted by man4857

Didn't "plan" their life? Everyone's situation is different. Do you think people plan or willingly want to work minimum wage jobs? They can only do what's in their control, the rest is dictated by the economy and the free market. Some people will come out ahead and others won't. And you even dare even suggest someone didn't "plan" their life because they're stuck working minimum wage? Sounds like you're the entitled one here.

Be real? Preventing someone from going hungry and/or homeless is as real as it gets. I don't know what real are you talking about. All you're stating is a fairness question, not reality.

Here's another reality check for you. Let's say we have the best people in the world and somehow they all got better jobs. Who do you think will work the lower paid jobs then? Who will work at fast food joints? You think they all can disappear and suddenly get better jobs? The free market will drive the wages of those "good" jobs down due to supply and the wages of the lower wage occupations up due to demand. But oh hey, plan your life better is your response.

^^^ to post above

I'm responsible for me and those counting on me - not those that didn't plan to take care of themselves.

You can stomp your feet all you want - paying someone more because they are hungry is not the way it works. If someone thinks they are worth more, they'll get the job they are valued at. But if a low paying job is all they are capable of, they need to plan for a higher paying jobs (not stomp their feet and cry foul because someone doesn't agree - or simply demand more money because you can't pay rent with an entry level job).

Minimum wage can be 20 per hour, what difference does it make when the cost of living goes up and they can't afford rent... Then stomp feet until it's 40 per hour?... Learn more and earn more. Don't just say I deserve more cause I'm hungry.

[AZ_Rookie]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

Why do you get this idea that minimum wage jobs are just working at fast foods? If you get old or disabled, you are likely to need support from destitute home health aides to look after you at minimum wage. Same with nursing assistants.

You are pushing for massive third world immigration to America as the job market you'd like to see is flooded with terrible drudgery jobs at awful pay. Whats so great about that?

What, you want me to list every minute wage job to make a point?

The snowflakes in this thread (and this forum in general) are quite telling.

[AZDesertBrat]

Originally Posted by LBTRS

Then you have not been paying attention. Prices are up all over.

Yes, they are. As a cashier in retail I notice it every day. A couple of weeks ago milk was about $2.68 gallon. Last week it had jumped up to $3.38, or thereabouts. One store or another almost always has milk on sale for $1.99 and we sell a LOT of it as an ad match.


Prices go up whether minimum wage does or not. They always have. So I don't blame a raise in wages for prices going up because they would anyway. It just means that people making less will buy less or go into debt. I am pretty lucky that I get a raise every year and am well beyond minimum wage but the new people are making what it took me two years to get and four years when their $1 hour more kicks in after training.

[Dport7674]

Originally Posted by LBTRS

We eat at a Greek Gyro place often and in December I paid $7.99 for the Gyro I always get. We went there yesterday and it is now $9.99. I said "wow, prices went up" and she responded "because of the minimum wage".

You should boycott that place for raising their prices more than was needed to cover the minimum wage increase and then lying to your face about it.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by AZ_Rookie

I'm responsible for me and those counting on me - not those that didn't plan to take care of themselves.

You can stomp your feet all you want - paying someone more because they are hungry is not the way it works. If someone thinks they are worth more, they'll get the job they are valued at. But if a low paying job is all they are capable of, they need to plan for a higher paying jobs (not stomp their feet and cry foul because someone doesn't agree - or simply demand more money because you can't pay rent with an entry level job).

Minimum wage can be 20 per hour, what difference does it make when the cost of living goes up and they can't afford rent... Then stomp feet until it's 40 per hour?... Learn more and earn more. Don't just say I deserve more cause I'm hungry.

Exactly! It all comes down to everybody being responsible for their own lives, their own destinies, and their own families. It seems as though the bleeding hearts are never satisfied and will always demand more money, whether it's higher wages for low skilled jobs, higher taxes for public services, or government paid health care, child care, FMLA time, or whatever else. And who pays the price? The rest of us.

The cost of goods & services always increase when minimum wages increase, and we're seeing it now in many restaurants & stores. The lowest wage earners will never have a higher standard of living even when their wages increase, and the middle class who rarely ever see an increase in their wages are being hit harder due to the higher cost of living.