Voting soon, what do you think of Prop 300 in AZ? (sales, car insurance)

[jkh35]

I Dont Care How Long You Have Worked Or Lived In Arizona. Bottom Line Are You Legal Or Illegal.

[Steve97415]

Originally Posted by bluepacific

Hi GUYS/GALS

I believe even if a staggering 80% of Arizonans Approved the Prop 300 , some obscure Latino Left Wing Rights group from California or elsewhere would come over , Protest and throw it into the courts in a Law Suit to defeat it. It could be tied up for years in the Courts.

I'm sure that the proponents aren't so naive as to be unaware of the constitutional problems posed by the proposition. You can't just ask the Supreme Court to reconsider a past decision, you have to pass a law that will get their attention. Plyler vs. Doe was a 5-4 decision 23 years ago when the Supreme Court was more liberal -- and the immigration reform lobby less active -- than it is today. If they can get just one more justice to see it their way, Plyler could get overturned. I doubt that will happen, though. The Arizona Supreme Court will declare Prop. 300 unconstitutional and the Supreme Court will most likely let that ruling stand without comment.

[teachtheworld]

Hello to all! I'm new to this sight so I hope I'm doing this correctly. I noticed your "thread" on prop 300 and that is a matter I am very concerned with. So, I hope you won't mind if I share my 2 cents worth.

I have been teaching English as a second Language to adults for many years now. It's a job I love and I believe I provide an important and useful service not only to my students but to the community. Prop 300 would likely make me lose my job (and hundreds of good, hard working teachers like me) The majority of the people we teach are likely illegal immigrants. I understand peoples frustration over the illegal immigrant issues but taking away their opportunity to learn English will not help with these issues. These people are here and not going away any time soon. They need to learn English. (Especially if we truly want it to be our official language).

I hear people say all the time, "why don't they speak English?" Well, there are thousands trying to learn English but prop 300 will take these classes away.
I believe that teaching my students English also helps the K-12 schools and teachers. I teach my students to read in English (and to read to their children at home) , how to write notes to the teacher, how to help their children with homework, etc. Why would we want to take this type of teaching away?
We also have a program that teaches them how to be better parents. How to teach their children rules (like not crossing the street except in the crosswalk) We need more of this type of teaching not less.
If cost is a concern to you, why don't we have illegals pay for these classes? They are willing to but prop 300 does not allow that possibility. It totally prohibits English classes or Family Literacy. This is very narrow and short-sighted thinking.

What will happen down the road when more and more illegals can't speak English, their children continue to struggle in school and drag our schools test scores even lower, and our work force is full of people who are uneducated and can't speak English? Is that really what we want for Arizona?

I hope you will consider what I have to say and vote no on Prop 300. If you aren't sure, I suggest you follow the old saying, "When in doubt, leave it out!"

[ElizaTeal]

If Mexicans, legal or illegal, really want to learn to speak English they will. Prop 300 won't stop people who have a strong desire to learn the English language. Teachtheworld just may not be their teacher.

[diggitydot]

Originally Posted by teachtheworld

If cost is a concern to you, why don't we have illegals pay for these classes?

If they were legal citizens, they would already be paying for these classes with their taxes. And those aren't the only costs that are an issue. The increases in the need for police services, educating children illlegally in the US with their families, medical services for those who elect to come across the border for health care, etc. ESL classes are truly the least of the costs concerned.

Originally Posted by teachtheworld

They are willing to but prop 300 does not allow that possibility. It totally prohibits English classes or Family Literacy. This is very narrow and short-sighted thinking.

I would love to see a link to the language in the proposition that actually prohibits someone from taking classes to learn English. It may make it more difficult for illegals to do so, but anyone legal would still have that option if they choose to utilize the classes. And honestly, I have NO issues with covering the costs of ESL, so long as they're in the country legally.

Originally Posted by teachtheworld

What will happen down the road when more and more illegals can't speak English, their children continue to struggle in school and drag our schools test scores even lower, and our work force is full of people who are uneducated and can't speak English? Is that really what we want for Arizona?

That's what we already HAVE in Arizona and in many other border states. It's difficult to use scare tactics of what "might" happen, when it's already common place.


I think it's wonderful that you teach ESL classes and sincerely hope you don't lose your job. But that doesn't change the fundamental fact that when someone chooses to enter the the US without proper documentation or status, they are not citizens and shouldn't have the same rights that we as citizens have. Yes, education is something that always improves a society. But why should I pay to educate someone who is illegally in this country when those limited funds could be spent on someone who has bothered to go through the lengthy and time consuming process of becoming a legal citizen? There are lots of non-English speaking citizens who would also greatly benefit from your teaching expertise.

And it's wonderful that you help your students with their parenting. But as a parent, I think being a good role model to my children is one of the strongest messages I can send them. When a parent is in a country illegally, they are not being a good role model, regardless of their character. Legality is not one of those "gray area" types of things. Either you are or you aren't. Unfortunately, there isn't an "in-between" on this one.

I have no issues with immigration. I only have issues with illegal immigration. If someone wants to come to the US, great! Just do it legally or don't do it at all.

[migrants have rights]

migrants pay taxes

http://www.ime.gob.mx/investigacione...es/arizona.pdf

[ElizaTeal]

Originally Posted by migrants have rights

migrants pay taxes

http://www.ime.gob.mx/investigacione...es/arizona.pdf

I didn't look at the url you posted, is it in English?

[migrants have rights]

Originally Posted by zonababe

I didn't look at the url you posted, is it in English?

yes it is in english

thunderbird which is in glendale arizona, rated among the top nationally and internationally for a business school
worked with different governments, NGO's to show that undocumented migrants contribute 300 million dollars to the economy.

so dean martin has no idea what he is talking about.

[migrants have rights]

Originally Posted by Nea1

I dont see how the illegals pay taxes, they need Social Security number for that and I thought you had to be a citizen to get one, at least my husband did, alot are paid under the table and most send alot of money to mexico, money they do not contribute here, oh besides buying groceries and clothing. We keep giving and giving at what point do we say no more?

getting a fake social security card is quite easy, black market.

and even if they do send money back to mexico they are paying taxes.

all those companies that people can send money through, make a killing on taxes.
you pay a 20% tax on whatever you send, to wherever.

they contribute to the economy.
it is just baseless lies, fear makes the sheep say 'baaah'

[migrants have rights]

Originally Posted by Nea1

It isnt saying they cannot attend, they just will not be able to get state grants and funding. I looked into some Universities in mexico, I couldnt find any funding help, all wanted payment upfront from Americans attending which even they say is a very small amount, as well as proof of Id and birth certificate, then you had to pass several exams.

do white priveledge students need help?