Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No. It's not about modernisation, it's about the culture and society. The religions themselves are probably not that different, but religious practices and religion's position in society are completely different in Israel (basically the same as Europe and America, just with some quirks like Shabbat and kosher etc. and that there's only religious marriage which is quite laughable) and in Islamic states (absolutely insane).
East Asia is not the West. Western cultures and the Far East have nothing in common.
You brought up modernization and now you've also brought up religion's position in society where in many East Asian countries is more similar to their place in places that are firmly in the West versus elsewhere including Israel where religion has a very central role in large swaths of society and politics (and not just some quirks which I think is a pretty odd statement about Israel). I know there are many axes for something as nebulous as the West, but I think you're a bit off in assessment for some of this rationale and your idea of Israel is like seems a bit off-kilter even though I think in both an expansive cultural definition of the West and in the geopolitical sense, I buy the argument that Israel can fit.
I really don't understand those who include JAPAN in the West and exclude Latin America.
The West is a cultural concept and opposes the East, it's not the same as developed economies!
I agree. Japan is an example of eastern culture not western. Being an ally of western powers does not make them western. The Japanese are very proud of their ancient eastern civilization. I selected all European countries (minis Russia since it really is not western), all of North and South America as well as Australia and New Zealand. These countries all share a foundation in the culture of Europe and Christianity. Latin America is certainly part of western culture. Absolutely no doubt about it.
Also about your comment regarding developed countries....A good part of South America also is part of the developed world by the way. Chile, Argentina and Brazil are all developed countries. Most other Latin American countries are close to being considered developed countries according to their HDI ratings. Central America has the most troubling issues but Mexico to the north has a relatively high HDI. The only thing holding back Mexico from becoming a first world nation is drug violence.
Yet strangely, these obsessed, cultural bubbled countries with their alien concepts are the places that so many people want to move to. I wonder why?
1. They tend to have high disposable incomes, however it is not where the story ends..
2. Misinformed people, same as many people loving London or Paris because they romanticized if through their youth...
3. SO many people? the vast majority of Immigration in the US comes from Mexico and central American countries transiting through Mexico.. and it is mostly due to Proximity.. you don't see Nigerians or Indian people in large Masses moving to the US other than international students..
4. Americans are much more likely to move to Europe and stay than the Other way around,
There is more violence, social insecurity, systematic racism,and lack of Work life balance in the Anglosphere than in many other developed countries.. so many people are a bit dissapointed after Living in the US or the UK... Australia and Canada used to be good options ..but we know what is happening lately.
I think it'd depend on the context if it's talking about culture or specific geopolitical situations. I think culturally, the most expansive view of the West would be
- all of Europe including the Caucasus except for Azerbaijan and not including the bit of Turkey in Europe
- the Americas
- countries and dependencies in Oceania that arose mostly from settler colonies of European countries and immigrants
- in Africa, Cape Verde and Sao Tome and Principe as well as Namibia and South Africa given the lingua franca and maybe Angola based on a combination of how thoroughly European languages are used as the lingua franca, the Christian religion has taken hold and the concentrated wealth and influence in distinctly European descended communities
- Asia gets maybe a nod to Singapore especially its heavy handed adoption of the English language and to Israel for society and culture that's closely modeled towards that of Europe and filled with descendants and immigrants from such
not only Azerbaijan,but also Georgia and Armenia are not "Western" by any means.. Turkey also not.
Also about your comment regarding developed countries....A good part of South America also is part of the developed world by the way. Chile, Argentina and Brazil are all developed countries. Most other Latin American countries are close to being considered developed countries according to their HDI ratings.
No country in Latin America is developed. Not even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
You brought up modernization and now you've also brought up religion's position in society where in many East Asian countries is more similar to their place in places that are firmly in the West versus elsewhere including Israel where religion has a very central role in large swaths of society and politics (and not just some quirks which I think is a pretty odd statement about Israel). I know there are many axes for something as nebulous as the West, but I think you're a bit off in assessment for some of this rationale and your idea of Israel is like seems a bit off-kilter even though I think in both an expansive cultural definition of the West and in the geopolitical sense, I buy the argument that Israel can fit.
Religion might not be particularly dominant in East Asia but that's merely one aspect of religion. Judaism is a monotheistic religion like Christianity. They even share the same book, or almost the same book.
And religion is one cultural aspect, in every other aspect of culture East Asia shares nothing with the West. The bottom line is most Israelis are European descendants and have very similar lifestyle as Europeans, they just have more eccentric traits.
No country in Latin America is developed. Not even close.
Religion might not be particularly dominant in East Asia but that's merely one aspect of religion. Judaism is a monotheistic religion like Christianity. They even share the same book, or almost the same book.
And religion is one cultural aspect, in every other aspect of culture East Asia shares nothing with the West. The bottom line is most Israelis are European descendants and have very similar lifestyle as Europeans, they just have more eccentric traits.
Not really, Most Israelis are semithic descendant, and even Ashkenazi jews as a whole cluster Close to South Italians and Greeks, but the other groups are more far away such as Sephardic and more so Mizrahi.
What Israel is certainly is a Mediterranean country.
Not Such thing as European, Greece with Denmark have nothing in common, completely different peoples, culture, language, traditions and even physical appearance are extremely different as a group.. so is body language, temperament and interaction with the opposite gender, family and friends...
About Development, depends how high you set the bar.. at some point if we set the Bar Enough..
Only the following countries would be considered fully Developed:
Denmark
Norway
Sweden
Iceland
Finland
Germany
Netherlands
Switzerland
Austria
Why would be the US considered a developed country? it has a massive gap between the rich and poor, high crime rates, pathetic infrastructure on average, lot of homeless people, lot of gun related crime, and their public education lags behind a lot.
Why would be the UK be consifered Developed? lot of nonsensical violence, lot of social problems, high teenage pregnancy, mediocre public education, high alcoholism, many cities in the UK have even security guards at mcdonalds, is that what we call a developed country? The UK also has pathetic built houses, the materials are bad and deteriorate easily
Why We would consider France Fully developed? Just take a look at paris and suroundings, people burning cards, social clash between groups and tension.. not the place where Id like to raise my kids.
Dont get me started on Southern Europe.... and let alone countries like Israel... developed? lol
No country in Latin America is developed. Not even close.
Religion might not be particularly dominant in East Asia but that's merely one aspect of religion. Judaism is a monotheistic religion like Christianity. They even share the same book, or almost the same book.
And religion is one cultural aspect, in every other aspect of culture East Asia shares nothing with the West. The bottom line is most Israelis are European descendants and have very similar lifestyle as Europeans, they just have more eccentric traits.
I disagree and so does the HDI (human development index). Chile and Argentina are over 800 HDI putting them in the very high category. I will concede on Brazil which is in the high 700s but still close. The southern cone of South America is an advanced region and has been for a while. They are also very wise to stay out of the drama of world affairs for the most part, keeping them out of the spotlight.
There has always been an erroneous belief among Americans that South America was poor and third worldish. This has always been wrong. The bias Spanish speaking Americans and English speaking Americans have against each other was transported over here from the old world at a time England and Spain were mortal enemies. Long after it died out in England and Spain it lives on in the new world in the bias and attitudes we have towards each other. Argentina and Chile are as developed and first world as all other nations with HDIs in the 800s.
Not really, Most Israelis are semithic descendant, and even Ashkenazi jews as a whole cluster Close to South Italians and Greeks, but the other groups are more far away such as Sephardic and more so Mizrahi.
No. The vast majority of Israeli Jews are European descendents according to Israel's census.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travel4Food
Not Such thing as European, Greece with Denmark have nothing in common, completely different peoples, culture, language, traditions and even physical appearance are extremely different as a group.. so is body language, temperament and interaction with the opposite gender, family and friends...
Greece and Denmark have far more in common than any non-Western country has with either of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travel4Food
About Development, depends how high you set the bar.. at some point if we set the Bar Enough..
Only the following countries would be considered fully Developed:
Denmark
Norway
Sweden
Iceland
Finland
Germany
Netherlands
Switzerland
Austria
Why would be the US considered a developed country? it has a massive gap between the rich and poor, high crime rates, pathetic infrastructure on average, lot of homeless people, lot of gun related crime, and their public education lags behind a lot.
Why would be the UK be consifered Developed? lot of nonsensical violence, lot of social problems, high teenage pregnancy, mediocre public education, high alcoholism, many cities in the UK have even security guards at mcdonalds, is that what we call a developed country? The UK also has pathetic built houses, the materials are bad and deteriorate easily
Why We would consider France Fully developed? Just take a look at paris and suroundings, people burning cards, social clash between groups and tension.. not the place where Id like to raise my kids.
Dont get me started on Southern Europe.... and let alone countries like Israel... developed? lol
Even more nonsense. Certain countries are more developed amongst developed countries, but when a country reaches a certain point, it should be considered developed. Latin America has not.
I also don't see how Germany is considered fully developed when for example Australia isn't. Australia has higher income, higher wealth, and higher life expectancy.
And finally, Israel's income is very similar to Germany now. Israel's life expectancy is also higher than Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Austria.
I disagree and so does the HDI (human development index). Chile and Argentina are over 800 HDI putting them in the very high category. I will concede on Brazil which is in the high 700s but still close. The southern cone of South America is an advanced region and has been for a while. They are also very wise to stay out of the drama of world affairs for the most part, keeping them out of the spotlight.
There has always been an erroneous belief among Americans that South America was poor and third worldish. This has always been wrong. The bias Spanish speaking Americans and English speaking Americans have against each other was transported over here from the old world at a time England and Spain were mortal enemies. Long after it died out in England and Spain it lives on in the new world in the bias and attitudes we have towards each other. Argentina and Chile are as developed and first world as all other nations with HDIs in the 800s.
If anything that simply means HDI needs to update their goalpost.
If you compare the bulk of south America to the bulk of Asia. You will find South America is more developed.
Not all of Asia is South Korea, Japan and Singapore.
What sets Latin America back is its tremendous inequality.
The wealth gap in Europe is smaller, in Latin America it falls on both extremes of the spectrum hence it looks worse on paper than it actually is.
China (your own homeland) for example is renown for hiding its poverty.
A slum in South America
Notice the concrete made homes, the direct tv antennas, the solar panel providing the community with electricity.
A slum in Asia
Notice the open sewage, the river infested with floating trash, there is even a dog's carcass.
You really need to find something better to do with your life.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
