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A court ruling took tribal land off of Wisconsin tax rolls. It was seen as a victory for tribes, but it has left a hole in local government budgets. A federal appeals court ruled last summer that Wisconsin can’t force tribal landowners to pay property taxes on reservation lands.
I assume you are ok with a reduction or elimination in the $4.7 BILLION in aid/subsidy US taxpayers provide Native Americans annually.
Seems like the logical next step right?
I am definitely not an expert on Indian law. But I remember taking it class and the teacher was saying words to the effect that the treaties between the United States and the tribes were guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. A treaty is an agreement between two Sovereign Nations. So if you want to do away with the,billion dollar Aid, go for it, nothing stopping you except for the constitution.
I am definitely not an expert on Indian law. But I remember taking it class and the teacher was saying words to the effect that the treaties between the United States and the tribes were guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. A treaty is an agreement between two Sovereign Nations. So if you want to do away with the,billion dollar Aid, go for it, nothing stopping you except for the constitution.
You make an interesting point but I believe it is no longer accurate. Congress stipulated that there are to be no more treaties with Native Americans (NA) after 1871. Since then NA and US have entered into "agreements" but by law, agreements can be modified or cancelled.
Even with treaties, some scholars argue that the elements and burdens as stated in the treaties have been fulfilled by the US and thus there are no legal burdens binding either party to treaty stipulations anymore.
I do not know complete story but I doubt that just using words in a treaty written over a hundred years ago binds USA to billions of dollars in welfare subsidy forever.
Lawyers could make a lot of money arguing either way I guess.
There's nothing more confusing and frustrating then reading about Indian law. The Supreme Court ruled against the Navajo Nation having access to water. But it also goes much deeper than that of course because that's just the tip of the iceberg. And some of the rulings and all various states are very confusing.
For example I was reading just now that and the state of Oklahoma but a native was given a traffic citation in the City of Tulsa. And he appealed it, and I read the 10th circuit court ruled to overturn the stage decision to deny an appeal, so appeal to dismiss his case. So now of course Oklahoma Governor State is on the warpath. He ruled against several Native American casino compacts. But there's always two sides to every coin. And as far as treaty rights or treaties, I believe that you are correct but now we are talking about jurisdiction. Which opens up a whole another world. Is it something called native news online and it's always an eye-opener. I am full blood and live in Oklahoma and even I am confused by various laws and how things are being reversed. For example a native is on Native American land or Native American Trust land or reservation and commits a crime, is convicted and sent to prison, I heard that some individuals were appealing the ruling and were set free because the state of Oklahoma did not have jurisdiction on Native American Trust/reservation land. I think we are talking apples and oranges here now so just be aware that Indian law is complicated.
I am Native American and I pay property taxes here in Oklahoma , but they only come out to about $200 for this 20 acres of land that I am living on.
I just don't see how Wisconsin could be so economicly impacted because the Native Americans are not paying property taxes. But then again I don't know how much the state is taking in on property taxes.
Forgive all the typos I am using the microphone to post this because I don't have the internet at home. And I'm using my cell phone. And I'm too lazy to go back and make about 20 or 30 corrections.
Last edited by _redbird_; 06-29-2023 at 02:29 PM..
I don't want to comment on welfare subsidies, because someone somewhere would have to critically Define exactly what is meant by welfare subsidies. And I don't think Native Americans are the only ones receiving welfare subsidies but the white man resents. I think all federally recognized tribes can apply for funds for various programs. But now I think you're getting into how much broader Realm that covers all of the United States and all of the people. I remember I had a neighbor who was ranting about illegals receiving food stamps and such but they were not legally American citizens.
Good topic though and there's quite a bit on the internet. I just typed in Native American welfare subsidies. And some of the questions being asked were outrageously funny. But I also saw where they made the point that there would be no more treaties in after 1871 so that was a good point. I know my family member works for social services for our tribe, and I was just wondering if non Indians have social services as well. I don't receive a welfare check from the government I know that. And I have to pay income tax sales tax. I tried to never take advantage of any of the tribal programs because I always had a job. I have never been on welfare either. But I do collect Social Security.
But I suppose Wisconsin is probably as poor as Oklahoma.
I don't want to comment on welfare subsidies, because someone somewhere would have to critically Define exactly what is meant by welfare subsidies. And I don't think Native Americans are the only ones receiving welfare subsidies but the white man resents. I think all federally recognized tribes can apply for funds for various programs. But now I think you're getting into how much broader Realm that covers all of the United States and all of the people. I remember I had a neighbor who was ranting about illegals receiving food stamps and such but they were not legally American citizens.
Good topic though and there's quite a bit on the internet. I just typed in Native American welfare subsidies. And some of the questions being asked were outrageously funny. But I also saw where they made the point that there would be no more treaties in after 1871 so that was a good point. I know my family member works for social services for our tribe, and I was just wondering if non Indians have social services as well. I don't receive a welfare check from the government I know that. And I have to pay income tax sales tax. I tried to never take advantage of any of the tribal programs because I always had a job. I have never been on welfare either. But I do collect Social Security.
But I suppose Wisconsin is probably as poor as Oklahoma.
I am very harkened by your posts. It's good to get an intelligent interjection into the reservation situation from someone involved in it. I'm in SD where the rez's are easily as bad as anywhere in the U.S. Yet, the state has very little control over the situation. It's controlled by the federal government and the local reservation's leadership that is, all too often, self serving and corrupt.
There's NO WAY that any situation in Wisconsin with the reservations is anywhere as bad as what we have here. I just wish that the entire reservation system could be redone as the people living there never seem to get what they need AND all too often, the people living there seem to refuse to make any efforts to help themselves when others reach out to help them.
In Wisconsin's situation, I don't see any way that the tribes can be forced to pay property taxes for land that DOES NOT OFFICIALLY SIT IN THE U.S. As it stands now, officially they are on sovereign land separate from the U.S. which is to most thinking people, F'Upped.
The reservations in the United States are the only "independent nation" in the WORLD that relies exclusively on ANOTHER independent nation for all there needs. Anything weird about that?
Wisconsin's Native American population is about 0.9% of the total population. And contrary to popular belief we do pay our share of taxes we do have people who work and buy their own food etc etc. Making broad sweeping generalizations about any population regardless of the race will only undermine your argument. If losing the property taxes you would get from 0.9% of the state's total population is going to hurt the state of Wisconsin that bad, maybe the problem is not the taxes that you are receiving from the Native American tribes. Losing the property taxes from 0.9% of the state should not be crippling. We still pay state taxes and federal income tax and sales tax. You make some valid points but I don't think playing the victim here is going to provide the most intelligent discourse. You have every right to oppose the reservation system. I'm pretty sure that Native Americans have a lot of negative views on the federal government as well. I don't know if one single person that receives everything they need from the federal government. Nobody is receiving a free handout for all of their bills such as gas, electric, water, trash, and car payments etc etc. You might want to take a step back and rethink that argument.
Trust me this country has plenty of other things to worry about other then Wisconsin losing their property tax from 0.9% of their population.
That reminds me of the film I saw about the state of Kansas where after the Vietnamese War there were a lot of people from Vietnam coming to the United States who were from the Hmong tribes in the mountains of vietnam. And the white people in Kansas got their panties in a scrunch and they were saying that the government buys them stores and buys them this and gives this away blah blah blah. Just simple basic ethnophobic worldview. I sympathize you losing the property taxes from 0.9% of the population but no tears will be shed here sorry. And if you really want to play the victim I will queue up the violin.
Wisconsin's Native American population is about 0.9% of the total population. And contrary to popular belief we do pay our share of taxes we do have people who work and buy their own food etc etc. Making broad sweeping generalizations about any population regardless of the race will only undermine your argument. If losing the property taxes you would get from 0.9% of the state's total population is going to hurt the state of Wisconsin that bad, maybe the problem is not the taxes that you are receiving from the Native American tribes. Losing the property taxes from 0.9% of the state should not be crippling. We still pay state taxes and federal income tax and sales tax. You make some valid points but I don't think playing the victim here is going to provide the most intelligent discourse. You have every right to oppose the reservation system. I'm pretty sure that Native Americans have a lot of negative views on the federal government as well. I don't know if one single person that receives everything they need from the federal government. Nobody is receiving a free handout for all of their bills such as gas, electric, water, trash, and car payments etc etc. You might want to take a step back and rethink that argument.
Trust me this country has plenty of other things to worry about other then Wisconsin losing their property tax from 0.9% of their population.
That reminds me of the film I saw about the state of Kansas where after the Vietnamese War there were a lot of people from Vietnam coming to the United States who were from the Hmong tribes in the mountains of vietnam. And the white people in Kansas got their panties in a scrunch and they were saying that the government buys them stores and buys them this and gives this away blah blah blah. Just simple basic ethnophobic worldview. I sympathize you losing the property taxes from 0.9% of the population but no tears will be shed here sorry. And if you really want to play the victim I will queue up the violin.
Who is on here whining about the loss of property tax from reservation land?
I would point out through that you make it seem as if the ENTIRE State is impacted by reservation land not being taxed. Likely not true. In WI, property tax is a very local/school topic. 90% of property tax funds are used by local public schools and local public services. Therefore ,if say 30% or more of a county or Township is reservation land and now not subject to the property tax, it is a VERY big deal for those folks. The remaining non reservation properties must pick up the difference. Property taxes are not cheap in WI.
Who is on here whining about the loss of property tax from reservation land?
I would point out through that you make it seem as if the ENTIRE State is impacted by reservation land not being taxed. Likely not true. In WI, property tax is a very local/school topic. 90% of property tax funds are used by local public schools and local public services. Therefore ,if say 30% or more of a county or Township is reservation land and now not subject to the property tax, it is a VERY big deal for those folks. The remaining non reservation properties must pick up the difference. Property taxes are not cheap in WI.
That is not the case at all for Vilas County- where the Lac du Flambeau reservation is, due to most of the towns in the county having a lot of very high end high valuation housing on lakes and summer cottages/camps. They also have a high median age of the population, and few younger people in the schools. Property taxes are always quite low as the mill rates are low.
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