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I think Oceanic climates are not only heavily influenced by the climate. If that were the only criteria then Los Angeles and Casablanca would be Oceanic. I think of Oceanic climates as temperate. Rarely extremely cold, rarely extremely hot. Rainfall evenly distributed. Generally cloudy and mild and often rainy. Almost all Oceanic climates are found poleward of the 40th parallel, and usually on west coasts of contintents. All just IMO of course.
An important distinction that Koppen makes regarding Cfb climates, is that the polar low maintains it's influence in all seasons. What makes somewhere even like NYC Humid Subtropical/Cfa is that during the warmer months, subtropical air masses exert a major influence. No Cfb climate has that.
Sure but being at 33 degrees it can hardly be oceanic to begin with because it's gonna be too warm and sunny overall. I would say Sydney has a moderated type of Humid Subtropical climate.
That said, when most people think of Humid subtropical, they think of Atlanta, just like most people think of Dublin as the prototype of the oceanic climate. You can't avoid stereotypes because most people live in the Northern Hemisphere.
Or maybe i'll call it a desert-influenced oceanic climate !
Really, I don't think most people in the US think of Atlanta when they think "subtropical". Many more would think of Orlando, FL or Houston or New Orleans. We all see on the news that Atlanta can get pretty cold in winter. It is not a lowland coastal city. It is far from the ocean and over 1,000 feet in elevation.
I think Oceanic climates are not only heavily influenced by the climate. If that were the only criteria then Los Angeles and Casablanca would be Oceanic.
what do you think mediterranean climates are? they are oceanic with one difference, dry summers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90
Sydney can be described as having Oceanic influences, but is in no way Cfb.
that is a contradiction...
the reason why this thread sparks discussion like this is because there is no real wrong answer. Sydney is both, Sydney is borderline. it technically makes the Humid Subtropical classification by 1.3°C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtainium
I think of Oceanic climates as temperate. Rarely extremely cold, rarely extremely hot. Rainfall evenly distributed.
yes. which is Sydney. except it has 22.3°C as an average for the warmest summer month which is barely above the 21°C requirement and pushes it to Humid Subtropical according to Koppen. Every area to the south is Cfb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtainium
Generally cloudy and mild and often rainy. Almost all Oceanic climates are found poleward of the 40th parallel, and usually on west coasts of contintents. All just IMO of course.
most are but that has nothing to do with the classification itself.
just because most oceanic climates are cloudy and cool and most people live in these cloudy and cool oceanic climates does not mean that every oceanic climate must be cloudy and cool.
what do you think mediterranean climates are? they are oceanic with dry summers.
that is a contradiction...
the reason why this thread sparks discussion like this is because there is no real wrong answer. Sydney is both, Sydney is borderline. it technically makes the Humid Subtropical classification by 1.3°C.
Oceanic isn't the same as Cfb. Fiji also has major Oceanic influence, but is in no way a Cfb climate.
Don't worry about the temperature, but instead look to the weather patterns. Sydney doesn't resemble the weather patterns of a Cfb climate at all during summer.
what do you think mediterranean climates are? they are oceanic with one difference, dry summers.
Mediterranean climates are Csb, not Cfb, thus I don't think of them as 'oceanic.' I'm using the term in the way Koeppen would have.
Quote:
yes. which is Sydney. except it has 22.3°C as an average for the warmest summer month which is barely above the 21°C requirement and pushes it to Humid Subtropical according to Koppen. Every area to the south is Cfb.
So the area immediately to the south of Sydney is at the warmest possible boundary of a Cfb climate. And Sydney is beyond that boundary. Of course the boundaries themselves are determined by a classification scheme that is not 100% perfect, but if we are using the term 'Oceanic' in a Koeppen sense, then we should his Koeppen's criteria.
Quote:
most are but that has nothing to do with the classification itself.
just because most oceanic climates are cloudy and cool and most people live in these cloudy and cool oceanic climates does not mean that every oceanic climate must be cloudy and cool.
Again, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you using 'Oceanic' in the Koeppen sense, or in a colloquial sense? If the latter, then sure, any city by that exists near an ocean is 'Oceanic', so that would include Dubai, London, Shanghai, Los Angeles, Rome, Sydney, New York City, and coastal Antarctica. But when I use terms like that, I generally am referring to specific climate types, and the best-known classification scheme, Koeppen, uses the term 'Oceanic' to designate Cfb climates, i.e. mid-latitude climates where oceanic influence is stronger than any other feature and where subtropical airmasses aren't common.
Oceanic isn't the same as Cfb. Fiji also has major Oceanic influence, but is in no way a Cfb climate.
you keep making that same contradiction. no of course Fiji is not Cfb, its way too warm! but if it was situated 30° more south (and everything else about it was the same) everyone could call it Cfb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90
Don't worry about the temperature, but instead look to the weather patterns. Sydney doesn't resemble the weather patterns of a Cfb climate at all during summer.
i'm not worried about temperature, i was just stating the koppen classification and how close it is to being considered Cfb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtainium
Mediterranean climates are Csb, not Cfb, thus I don't think of them as 'oceanic.' I'm using the term in the way Koeppen would have.
my point was that mediterranean climates are most like oceanic climates. which is why they often border oceanic climates. because they are oceanic climates with less precipitation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtainium
So the area immediately to the south of Sydney is at the warmest possible boundary of a Cfb climate. And Sydney is beyond that boundary. Of course the boundaries themselves are determined by a classification scheme that is not 100% perfect, but if we are using the term 'Oceanic' in a Koeppen sense, then we should his Koeppen's criteria.
ok? also any area starting at Sydney northward would be the coolest possible Cfa. my point was that it is borderline. decided by an arbitrary number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtainium
Again, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you using 'Oceanic' in the Koeppen sense, or in a colloquial sense? If the latter, then sure, any city by that exists near an ocean is 'Oceanic', so that would include Dubai, London, Shanghai, Los Angeles, Rome, Sydney, New York City, and coastal Antarctica. But when I use terms like that, I generally am referring to specific climate types, and the best-known classification scheme, Koeppen, uses the term 'Oceanic' to designate Cfb climates, i.e. mid-latitude climates where oceanic influence is stronger than any other feature and where subtropical airmasses aren't common.
well i referred to koppen but i never said i agreed with it. Oceanic would be places where the prevailing wind is from the ocean, not just places near the ocean. Continental would be places where the prevailing wind is from a large land mass.
Cork, London, Lisbon, Nice, Rome, Valparaiso, San Francisco, and Seattle are oceanic.
- referred to as Oceanic or Mediterranean by Koppen
New York City, Boston, Shanghai, Seoul, and (to a lesser degree) even Tokyo are continental. (hence the seasonal variation)
- referred to as Humid Subtropical or Humid Continental by Koppen
Last edited by Sir Goosenseresworthie; 09-26-2015 at 04:55 PM..
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