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A true tropical climate has an average temp above 18c in every month
Subtropical climates have 5-11 months above 18c
New Zealand climates have 0-3
IMO vegetation is too broad to get a real feel for a climate
Niagara looked like this on Christmas
Every classification has extremes (Taipei is borderline tropical)
I don't see how a warm summer makes a climate subtropical, much like how a cold winter doesn't make a place subarctic. To me, subtropical is a relative term that relates to sufficient warmth to enable prolonged growth and greater amounts of plant species, between one place and another. Instead it's been used to indicate a specific climate and with a very generous lower limit (Koppen) and that is only relevant to a part of the world that sees cold winters. At least Trewartha's lower limit is something that can be seen in real world terms.
I live in a place that doesn't see any months reaching 18C, yet can grow anything some where like New York can and a vast amount more as well. It is winters that have the biggest impact on how a places looks, and feels year round.
I don't see how a warm summer makes a climate subtropical. To me, subtropical is a relative term that relates to sufficient warmth to enable prolonged growth and greater amounts of plant species, between one place and another. Instead it's been used to indicate a specific climate and with a very generous lower limit (Koppen) and that is only relevant to a part of the world that sees cold winters. At least Trewartha's lower limit is something that can be seen in real world terms.
I live in a place that doesn't see any months reaching 18C, yet can grow anything some where like New York can and a vast amount more as well. It is winters that have the biggest impact on how a places looks, and feels year round.
Really no month reahces 18C do you like on the mountains!
Anyway I think the term subtropical is what makes it weird. subtropical means a transition between continental to the north and west and tropical to the south. Your basing the climate types too much on vegetation, for example places in southwest England can grow subtropical and even tropical vegetation but does it make it tropical, NO!
Really no month reahces 18C do you like on the mountains!
Anyway I think the term subtropical is what makes it weird. subtropical means a transition between continental to the north and west and tropical to the south. Your basing the climate types too much on vegetation, for example places in southwest England can grow subtropical and even tropical vegetation but does it make it tropical, NO!
The warmest month here is 17.3C/63F. I live almost right on the coast.
I don't think of subtropical as a term that denotes climates similar to the tropics (Koppen obviously didn't either, with a -3C lower limit) It's a transitional climate -across a spectrum. Vegetation is the best indicator of that transition. Southern England can grow some subtropical species -so has subtropical aspect to it's climate (imo). Here can grow a lot more subtropical species- so is more subtropical.
NYC can grow very little subtropical species- so is less subtropical than either. It does have much warmer summers than either, but that doesn't make it a good place to see transition of vegetation types.
The warmest month here is 17.3C/63F. I live almost right on the coast.
I don't think of subtropical as a term that denotes climates similar to the tropics (Koppen obviously didn't either, with a -3C lower limit) It's a transitional climate -across a spectrum. Vegetation is the best indicator of that transition. Southern England can grow some subtropical species -so has subtropical aspect to it's climate (imo). Here can grow a lot more subtropical species- so is more subtropical.
NYC can grow very little subtropical species- so is less subtropical than either. It does have much warmer summers than either, but that doesn't make it a good place to see transition of vegetation types.
Well first of all no subtropical species naturally grow in southern England - which means it has no aspect of subtropical to it. Also NYC is on the top end of the subtropical climate so the transition is finished, places further south like south carolina as a slight tropical edge to things and is still going through a transition. I think want you need to think about is not if i plant can grow somewhere but if its naturally occuring or native to that area. Yes where you live it does have a subtropical aspect because some subropical like species grow there.
Well first of all no subtropical species naturally grow in southern England - which means it has no aspect of subtropical to it. Also NYC is on the top end of the subtropical climate so the transition is finished, places further south like south carolina as a slight tropical edge to things and is still going through a transition. I think want you need to think about is not if i plant can grow somewhere but if its naturally occuring or native to that area. Yes where you live it does have a subtropical aspect because some subropical like species grow there.
The ability to grow introduced species in a climate does/would indicate a subtropical aspect. If you could grow an orange or avocado at your place(without special care), wouldn't that say something significant about your climate?
NZ doesn't have some subtropical species,. It only has subtropical species.
^I've always thought of New Zealand as 'temperate' enough to support such vegetation. Regardless of what can grow though, the 'climate' does not resemble a tropical one. We all have different interpretations though and I respect yours
^I've always thought of New Zealand as 'temperate' enough to support such vegetation. Regardless of what can grow though, the 'climate' does not resemble a tropical one. We all have different interpretations though and I respect yours
I only think of NZ as Temperate Oceanic. I think of subtropical as a climate characteristic, rather than a type.
I don't see that NYC resembles a tropical climate.
I only think of NZ as Temperate Oceanic. I think of subtropical as a climate characteristic, rather than a type.
That's a view which distinguishes you from the rest of us, but at the same time makes it more interesting. There's no doubt in my mind that New Zealand is firmly temperate (oceanic).
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I don't see that NYC resembles a tropical climate.
Perhaps you ought to spend a summer in one of those NYC apartments . In summertime in America, the Aw and Cfa zones as well as the southern part of the Dfa zone function more like a single climate zone, with heat and humidity being dominant, and cool shots penetrating the northern part of the zone on occasion. In winter it's a very different story, which is why they're in different zones to begin with. The greatest difference is found in winter; in summer there isn't a huge difference.
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. In summertime in America, the Aw and Cfa zones as well as the southern part of the Dfa zone function more like a single climate zone, with heat and humidity being dominant, and cool shots penetrating the northern part of the zone on occasion. In winter it's a very different story, which is why they're in different zones to begin with. The greatest difference is found in winter; in summer there isn't a huge difference.