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There are many official reports or investigations which come to a sanitised conclusion. Project Blue Book, the 9/11 report, are just two of these which arrive at a conclusion without properly considering all the available information. Governments are the same all over the world. They have agendas which mean they have to place a spin on things to follow that agenda, so it is not just Asian governments which need to save political face but sometimes Western ones too.
If it means families lose their loved ones so that governments can keep secrets, then that is what happens, and I feel that in this case there were few - if any - Americans on board this MH370. It would probably matter even less since many who died were Chinese citizens which may (if my previous suggestion is correct) have been the country trying to 'export' the sensitive technology.
It was said at the time (in those forum posts that I linked to earlier) that there were lithium batteries in the cargo and that these may have started a fire. If so, then it would account for the plane on fire seen by the sailor woman, but it did NOT account for the place that it ended up in the Indian Ocean, which is why I suspect some agencies were behind this. If it had been a simple lithium fire as the reason it came down, it would have come down nearer or over land. There would be plenty of time to make mayday calls once the fire had been discovered but the communication system was cut off. If you are worried about the explosion of fuel over cities, there is plenty of open water on route and you could ditch the plane as soon as you found the fire.
If military people follow orders, then things are quite straightforward - they do as they are told.
Except it isn't that simple. In the military, we were required to follow LEGAL orders. We were REQUIRED to DISOBEY illegal orders. For example, an order to shoot down a known civilian aircraft that wasn't threatening the US would be an ILLEGAL order. Could something like that happen? Could they find somebody to push the button? Sure. But I don't they could keep it a secret.
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Folks have reported seeing alien bodies too. Not just the undertaker who reportedly supplied 'child-sized' coffins for Roswell crash bodies.
I think you're proving my point, OCPaul. I'm, not sure what they saw, but whatever it was it's pretty clear they couldn't keep quiet about it.
Except it isn't that simple. In the military, we were required to follow LEGAL orders. We were REQUIRED to DISOBEY illegal orders. For example, an order to shoot down a known civilian aircraft that wasn't threatening the US would be an ILLEGAL order. Could something like that happen? Could they find somebody to push the button? Sure. But I don't they could keep it a secret.
I think you're proving my point, OCPaul. I'm, not sure what they saw, but whatever it was it's pretty clear they couldn't keep quiet about it.--
You get all kinds of people in the military. Those who want to join and those who think it is the only thing they can do to make a success of their lives. So, you get people who want to uphold the law and those who dont really care much.
I do not think the MH370 was a regular military operation, but a covert one. One where the CIA or some other agency were watching the employees of those sensitive Silicon Valley companies and were not prepared to allow that technology to arrive at its destination. I dont think agency personnel and spooks are the same as regular military people. I think they are a special kind of person who is weeded out from the normal person by the selection process. Similar to psychopaths are very different from the rest of us. Some wives can go years and years without knowing their husband is in that kind of a special job. Unfortunately, it is a fact of life that we still have damaged people doing sick acts of violence.
Bill, you do not seem to be able to come to the conclusion that people can keep secrets - even after I have referred you to Ben Rich's book about the Skunk Works development of several secret planes. Those people were not even in the military, they were just folk who wanted to do a good job and believed it was good for the country to keep those secrets.
You get all kinds of people in the military. Those who want to join and those who think it is the only thing they can do to make a success of their lives. So, you get people who want to uphold the law and those who dont really care much.
I'm sure there are people in the US military who don't necessarily care about lawful orders. But the leadership team on, say, a US Navy cruiser (capable of shooting down MH370 in the open ocean) would indeed care about lawful orders. and as I've said before, it is a TEAM of people. It's not one person back at Langley who makes the decision and everybody must blindly follow those instructions.
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I do not think the MH370 was a regular military operation, but a covert one. One where the CIA or some other agency were watching the employees of those sensitive Silicon Valley companies and were not prepared to allow that technology to arrive at its destination...
If they knew the tech was on the aircraft, why not just intercept the people before they got to the plane? It was Kuala Lupur, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of the CIA, and CERTAINLY less risky shooting down a commercial airliner.
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Bill, you do not seem to be able to come to the conclusion that people can keep secrets.....
I think it's very difficult for a large group of people to keep (certainly explosive and/or very controversial) secrets. The US is constantly dealing with security breaches of its classified material. Look at Edward Snowden. Look at Bradley Manning. Or a whole host of others.
But even so, let's argue that the US did intervene and cause the disappearance of MH370. How did they do it? Did they shoot it down via a Navy ship in the IO? That would seem to me to be the most plausible scenario. But unlikely, as discussed. Did a covert CIA team take over the plane in flight, divert it somewhere, confiscate the tech and murder everybody on board? Very difficult to do, and unlikely for a whole host of reasons. And as mentioned above, so much simpler to just intercept the people before they got on the plane.
Occam's Razor, which I've discussed before, says the plane likely crashed, for whatever reason in the IO. Maybe mechanical error. Maybe pilot error. Maybe pilot misadventure. We'll probably never know. But a wide ranging US government, covert conspiracy to shoot down (or whatever) the aircraft? I find that highly unlikely.
I will check out the David Rich book you mentioned. I've heard of the Skunkworks and think it would be an interesting read.
I have never said it was shot down because I think as others have said, that it would be too obvious and you have to have the missiles in the right place, debris field, international incident, and many people will know about it.
I have already given my suggestion as to how they did it. The agencies took over the plane and flew it into the Indian Ocean. You do not have to recover the tech which is in the plane, all you have to do is to stop the other side getting their hands on it and make sure the plane is buried far, far out to sea where it is impossible to get at. This is what happened. Of course, in an ideal world everything is planned and the tech is recaptured before it leaves the ground, but sh*t happens and you cannot always plan for these things, things go wrong, the enemy evades you, etc. Maybe it was just the best solution they could come up with at the time? If the mission is to stop the tech getting into the wrong hands, then they have to sort out the story afterwards? I dont know, it is all speculation still.
However, there is a 500-page+ forum post about the technicalities of what happens in the plane and how long the O2 lasts(10 mins), and how it is generated(chemical), etc etc on the pilots forum thread, and there is another 300-page+ thread at above top secret which has just about every possible conspiracy theory you can think of. Thats what they are like over there.
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Originally Posted by ocpaul20
It was said at the time (in those forum posts that I linked to earlier) that there were lithium batteries in the cargo and that these may have started a fire. If so, then it would account for the plane on fire seen by the sailor woman, but it did NOT account for the place that it ended up in the Indian Ocean, which is why I suspect some agencies were behind this. If it had been a simple lithium fire as the reason it came down, it would have come down nearer or over land. There would be plenty of time to make mayday calls once the fire had been discovered but the communication system was cut off. If you are worried about the explosion of fuel over cities, there is plenty of open water on route and you could ditch the plane as soon as you found the fire.
There were also mangosteen fruits being transported which as far as I know, do not pose any risk. They are transported by air because they are perishable and will not last the trip by sea. As far as I can remember, there was nothing else in the cargo hold which may have raised a motive or a cause - other than the lithium batteries. I doubt whether they would have declared gold or other precious metals on the cargo manifest because people have to see it before the plane gets under way. I believe that kind of thing gets put on at the last minute and taken off first, obviously under guard.
I have already given my suggestion as to how they did it. The agencies took over the plane and flew it into the Indian Ocean.....
There are a whole host of reasons why I think that's implausible. They knew the tech would be on the plane. Why not intercept the tech before it got to the plane? Certainly much easier than the scenario you describe.
Or, let's say, for whatever reason, chief "A" at the CIA decides to have a team skyjack the plane and crash it. How does that work? Where does the team come from? Contractors? What do you do when they are identified by Malaysian authorities? (And its virtually assured they'd be identified.) How are they trained? Where are they trained?
Which brings up the next question--HOW would you train for a mission like this? An operation like that is EXTREMELY complicated. Like, SEAL Team 6 complicated. How would you have time to train for a mission like this?
Who does it? You can really only trust Americans to do it. So then, you're asking a team of 4-10 Americans (not to mention countless support staff) to murder an entire plane filled with innocent civilians to prevent American tech from getting to China. (This is where the "hard to keep secrets" part comes in.)
And if you can pull off such a complicated operation, including team identification and travel, training and logistics, again, why not just intercept the tech before it gets on the plane?h
And the plan itself: very, VERY complicated. You'd have to get 4-10 people onboard an international flight with weapons and explosives. Not an easy task. And how you crash the plane and get the team out? Not easy. Perhaps a suicide mission. How easy will it be to get a team of Americans to volunteer for a possibly suicide mission to keep tech from getting to China?
Back to the plan: WAAAYYYYY too complicated. Which is why I go back to Occam's Razor, The more complicated a plan gets, the more risk that it will fail. More and more complicated, more and more risk of failure. Which is why I think such a scenario is not plausible. EXTREMELY complicated, risky plan to do what? Keep China from getting out latest computer chip schematics?
What is easier than connecting to the flight controller and taking over control of the plane. You dont need anyone on there except a 'drone' pilot on the ground who is trained in this kind of thing. The military has many of these and I bet the CIA has them too.
No big operation, no lots of people knowing about it, no-one in the agency dies (except the 200-300 people on the flight) and the plane gets dumped in the middle of the deepest part of the ocean where no-one can recover the lost tech. Job done. easy.
What is easier than connecting to the flight controller and taking over control of the plane. You dont need anyone on there except a 'drone' pilot on the ground who is trained in this kind of thing. The military has many of these and I bet the CIA has them too.
No big operation, no lots of people knowing about it, no-one in the agency dies (except the 200-300 people on the flight) and the plane gets dumped in the middle of the deepest part of the ocean where no-one can recover the lost tech. Job done. easy.
Please provide reference describing the USG's ability to remotely take over any flight in the world and crash it. Because if the USG has that ability I guarantee it isn't the only actor that does, including bad actors.
Paul, you seem to think there is one secret omnipotent person, sitting on high somewhere, that has the power to push a button and, viola, whatever he wants to happen, happens. The USG simply doesn't have possess that level of competence. The USG can't even track who's received the flu vaccine. That's something I have personal knowledge of.
In 6 days, it will be 7 years since this tragedy happened.
I still believe (though many scorned me) it was an alien abduction, and nothing has surfaced(bodies, bones, clothing, luggage etc.) to make me believe otherwise.
There is a much simpler explanation: One of the pilots was a fanatic of some sort and he deliberately crashed the plane and everything sank to the bottom of the ocean.
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