Tenderloin restaurant owners: We need safer streets, not an ad campaign

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

Anyone reading this thread is seeing first hand why all this illegal behavior is being allowed to run free. Criminals and drug addicts are more valuable than the majority of honest hard working people just trying to raise a family and contribute to society.

Your statement of ‘value’ is absurd. Meaningless, unless you can substantiate it with some factual narrative / proof. Tell the readers who values the “criminals and drug addicts more than the majority of hard working people” … and what benefits do these “who” receive for their valuations. What’s the motivation behind the valuation you claim?

[sav858]

Somehow I don't really imagine too many white collar professionals, actors, etc... are sharing needles.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by sav858

Somehow I don't really imagine too many white collar professionals, actors, etc... are sharing needles.

Your imagination is sheltered and lacking experiences in the world of drug use.

[mattja]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Your imagination is sheltered and lacking experiences in the world of drug use.

Most people would consider that a good thing.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by mattja

Most people would consider that a good thing.

I absolutely agree. It is. Didn’t say otherwise.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Gee, why hasn’t anybody else thought of these *solutions*!??? Here’s hoping you’re forwarding your analysis to the mayor and city council … this well researched work of yours should get the job done finally!


Again with your uninformed campaigns You really don’t seem to know anything about homelessness or addictions (or law enforcement) … but why let knowledge get in the way of solutions, eh?

Here’s just one example of what you don’t know (from CDC, Center for Disease Control):



And, if you think AIDS and Hep-C and Hep-B are ‘just-deserts’ of the miserably addicted homeless street culture, once again I suggest you try learning about a topic before posting. Millions of non-addicts of all socio-economic levels use IV recreational drugs (and medical transfusions) … and get those diseases from shared needles and then from there to non-drug-users through unprotected sex … actions that work their way up through the population. *50% reduction*. Think about it.

My dad and the dad of one of my best friends from high school were friends growing up in SF and graduated from SI a year apart in the 1940s. A friend of the (that) friend's dad died very early on in SF of AIDS. That man had never had a same sex sexual experience....he had had an operation in a hospital, and that was right before they started screening the blood supply re AIDS.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Your imagination is sheltered and lacking experiences in the world of drug use.

Mine isn't.

Never known a needle user who was just "recreational." They are all dead, addicts, or fighting like **** to live normal lives. Many of these people can "fake it" and hold down jobs, even high paying ones, but their lives are still hell. Drugs control them, not the opposite.

I get part of what you are saying about drug addiction vs. recreational use but needles are the AK-47 of drug delivery methods. Just like no one who wasn't really into shooting guns would use an AK-47 for target shooting, no one who REALLY isn't into using drugs would use a needle to get themselves high.

I'd love to defend all the functional addicts I know/knew. Heck, I guess I still defend a lot of them, but I would never go around claiming needle use is any form of normal, nor claim anyone who has sunk to the level of shooting up isn't on the fast path to ruination.

YMMV

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Your statement of ‘value’ is absurd. Meaningless, unless you can substantiate it with some factual narrative / proof. Tell the readers who values the “criminals and drug addicts more than the majority of hard working people” … and what benefits do these “who” receive for their valuations. What’s the motivation behind the valuation you claim?

Why demand answers from him? Why not demand them from the people tasked with the job of running the cities? Why not ask those responsible for the appearance that they aren't doing their job? Ask THEM what their motivations are instead of asking someone else who wouldn't know more than what appears to be the case. People have a right to make statements about public safety. As much as you do. It might seem absurd to you - but lots of people are noticing what's going on in these major cities and they should absolutely be alarmed.

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Mine isn't.

Never known a needle user who was just "recreational." They are all dead, addicts, or fighting like **** to live normal lives. Many of these people can "fake it" and hold down jobs, even high paying ones, but their lives are still hell. Drugs control them, not the opposite.

I get part of what you are saying about drug addiction vs. recreational use but needles are the AK-47 of drug delivery methods. Just like no one who wasn't really into shooting guns would use an AK-47 for target shooting, no one who REALLY isn't into using drugs would use a needle to get themselves high.

I'd love to defend all the functional addicts I know/knew. Heck, I guess I still defend a lot of them, but I would never go around claiming needle use is any form of normal, nor claim anyone who has sunk to the level of shooting up isn't on the fast path to ruination.

YMMV

Yeah that is it completely.

I was reading through that and was scratching my head at it. Just because a person is high functioning, doesn't make them not an addict and the high functioning addicts rarely share needles. Sharing needles is an act of desperation, an act of someone who is so desperate for the high they will risk a litany of diseases just not to feel sick.

Once you tap the vein, the idea of using said drug recreationally is out the window for most. That doesn't mean you won't be high functioning though.

I think the big problem with hard left politicians that exist in significant numbers out there is that they operate in a world of theories not in reality. Their hard right counterparts operate in a world of cynicism where everyone is the worst thing they are capable of. Would be nice to find a middle ground.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Mine isn't.

Never known a needle user who was just "recreational." They are all dead, addicts, or fighting like **** to live normal lives. Many of these people can "fake it" and hold down jobs, even high paying ones, but their lives are still hell. Drugs control them, not the opposite.

I get part of what you are saying about drug addiction vs. recreational use but needles are the AK-47 of drug delivery methods. Just like no one who wasn't really into shooting guns would use an AK-47 for target shooting, no one who REALLY isn't into using drugs would use a needle to get themselves high.

I'd love to defend all the functional addicts I know/knew. Heck, I guess I still defend a lot of them, but I would never go around claiming needle use is any form of normal, nor claim anyone who has sunk to the level of shooting up isn't on the fast path to ruination.

YMMV

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Yeah that is it completely.

I was reading through that and was scratching my head at it. Just because a person is high functioning, doesn't make them not an addict and the high functioning addicts rarely share needles. Sharing needles is an act of desperation, an act of someone who is so desperate for the high they will risk a litany of diseases just not to feel sick.

Once you tap the vein, the idea of using said drug recreationally is out the window for most. That doesn't mean you won't be high functioning though.

I think the big problem with hard left politicians that exist in significant numbers out there is that they operate in a world of theories not in reality. Their hard right counterparts operate in a world of cynicism where everyone is the worst thing they are capable of. Would be nice to find a middle ground.

You both are mistaken in your certainty of personal knowledge. Deeply misinformed. Read thoroughly the selection quoted for you below from NIH, the National Institutes of Health, National Library of Medicine:

Sharing Drug Injection Equipment

IV drug users share injection equipment for a variety of reasons: pragmatically, clean "works" (the collective term for injection paraphernalia) are scarce; legally, the possession of injection equipment is a criminal offense in many states; socially, sharing represents a form of social bonding among IV drug users (Friedman et al., 1986). Before describing the injection behaviors associated with transmission, we discuss the setting in which drug use occurs.

Social Context Of Needle-Sharing

Sharing injection equipment is common among IV drug users (Black et al., 1986; Brown et al., 1987). Indeed, some studies have shown that essentially all IV drug users report needle-sharing during some period of their drug-use careers (Black et al., 1986). People are not born injectors; they learn this behavior in the presence of others who have already been initiated (Powell, 1973; Harding and Zinberg, 1977). As discussed below, a lack of equipment and injection skills, together with certain social and physiological factors that surround IV drug use, affect the likelihood of needle-sharing.

Initiation into Drug Use.

Much like the first sexual experience, the first injection experience may be anticipated or expected but not planned for (Des Jarlais et al., 1986c). Curiosity about IV drug use, whether sudden or long-standing, and association with people who inject drugs often lead to a moment when the uninitiated is present while drugs are being injected. The desire to join in can result in sharing both drugs and injection equipment. Few people have hypodermic injection equipment "around the house," and few are inclined to pierce their own skin with a needle. Therefore, newcomers to the IV drug-use world are likely to arrive without the proper equipment and to require help in executing the first injection. These circumstances make it highly probable that a novice will begin injecting in the presence of others and will share the equipment of those teaching the "art" of injection. The sharing of drugs and equipment that occurs during initial and subsequent drug-use episodes leads to the notion that communal or joint use is as natural as sharing alcohol, ice, and glasses at a cocktail party.

Contrary to popular myth, the first injection of heroin does not necessarily lead to addiction, and not all heroin users are addicts (Powell, 1973; Robins et al., 1975; Gerstein, 1976). Some individuals experiment with it for a period of time and then quit; others are intermittent users, injecting only on weekends (so-called "weekend warriors") or on isolated occasions ("chippies") (Zinberg et al., 1977). Indeed, initial IV drug-use experiences are not necessarily pleasurable. Heroin use involves a combination of pleasure and discomfort. Continued use over time involves both an acquired sense of pleasure and a differential tolerance for heroin's various effects.

Popular lore about heroin users holds that, once they are "hooked," their appetite for the drug is so great that they will run any risk to obtain it. In contrast, research has shown that users adjust their consumption to such external factors as price and availability (Waldorf, 1970; Hanson et al., 1985). This ability to adapt to various social and market forces also sustains the belief among many users that they are not addicts but merely visitors to the heroin scene who are still in control of their lives (Fields and Walters, 1985).


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK218616/