Will Scranton get passenger rail? (Washington, Penn: 2014, home, buying)

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by DavidWebb

A lot of that bridge has deteriorated to the point that they would not weigh as much as they would have when new. Get the Army Corp of Engineers to coordinate and it would get done.

First I want to correct myself, I said the Viaduct was built in 1929 and according to Wikipedia, it was built between 1908 and 1910: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_River_Viaduct.

Take a ride down to above Portland and walk to and get a good close look at that bridge. From that Wikipedia article I calculated out how heavy the steel reinforcement and concrete weighed. Reinforcement: 1,254,000 pounds and concrete: 7,706,400 pounds. That isn't counting the weight of the tracks, ties, or railings. That is a lot of helicopter trips!

[DavidWebb]

Originally Posted by fisheye

Reinforcement: 1,254,000 pounds and concrete: 7,706,400 pounds. That isn't counting the weight of the tracks, ties, or railings. That is a lot of helicopter trips!

Those figures are when built (I'm guessing) which like I said now that bridge is so deteriorated that it doesn't weigh that much now I would think....as for the helicopters it would take more than a couple to get it done right and quickly....the only parts that would be best airlifted are the sections over 80....the others could just be allowed to be demolished with a few sticks of dynamite and let it fall to the ground on the Delaware river side.....

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by DavidWebb

Those figures are when built (I'm guessing) which like I said now that bridge is so deteriorated that it doesn't weigh that much now I would think....as for the helicopters it would take more than a couple to get it done right and quickly....the only parts that would be best airlifted are the sections over 80....the others could just be allowed to be demolished with a few sticks of dynamite and let it fall to the ground on the Delaware river side.....

If PennDOT was in charge of the job and using the contractor, that has been working on 2 and a half miles of Route 611 here by me in Swiftwater, our children's children would be dead long before they ever got it demolished!

[DavidWebb]

Originally Posted by fisheye

If PennDOT was in charge of the job and using the contractor, that has been working on 2 and a half miles of Route 611 here by me in Swiftwater, our children's children would be dead long before they ever got it demolished!

Agree 100%

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

Wow, thanks for that blast from the past! I see they project 140 Eastbound riders (bottom of page 5) out of the phantom Andover station by 2030. Yet today the brick and mortar Netcong station only serves 85. Where will these people clamoring for rail service in Andover come from? How many of those people are already among the 85 driving a few miles down to catch the train in Netcong, Mount Olive, or Hackettstown? They project 10 or 11 trains a day from Andover (top of page 5) but today there are only 9 out of Netcong. I'd like to see how their projections from 2009 for existing stations compare to actual ridership numbers. I bet they are wildly wrong.

The study was published in July 2009 as people were still reeling from the crash. But when were those rosy numbers compiled? If those numbers came any time before September 2008 then the whole lot of ridership projections have to be thrown out and redone.

Also in 2009 there were plans for Wyndham Corporation to go ahead with a development of hundreds of single family homes in Shawnee, up on Mosier's Knob. The plans had been on the books in one form or another since the 80's. That plan has never materialized but I'm sure the "plans" were factored into the railroad ridership projections for the year 2030. All over the Poconos are defunct golf courses and resorts that "could potentially" be developed into thousands of single family homes, and the Ward Cleavers who own those homes would theoretically take a 2-1/2 hour train ride into Manhattan to work as stock brokers and insurance actuaries. But, really?

Yep, it's the most recent ridership study I can find. You did say you were interested in ridership studies, so I found what was available. Give me some credit!

I'd be interested in seeing what their projections for the existing stations were as well, though I don't know if they'd try to tabulate as those are existing stations rather than the generally more exhaustive studies needed to get greenlit for expansion. Yea, I'm guessing some people who drive to the other stations would end up going to a new Andover station if more convenient as well as potentially new ridership since it's now more convenient for a new group of people. If the idea is that they'd be running an additional train or two, then that also would likely increase ridership since greater frequency generally helps with fitting more people's schedules though they should be able to do that without an expansion unless there's some kind of issue with turnarounds or storage depots at the end.

I don't know if those developments were factored in. They're not mentioned in the study as far as I can tell. It does sound like the Poconos could use a bit of economic assistance which access to Northern New Jersey and NYC could help with, though again, I think it's odd to not have weekend projections since that does seem like a good idea if at least part of the intent is to bolster economic development within NEPA. It's also to me odd to not include west-bound AM ridership. I don't think it'll be as high, but I don't know if you agree with me here, but it's pound-per-pound, each rider going westbound towards Scranton in the AM is probably worth at least as much economically if not more for Scranton than those headed eastwards towards NYC/Newark/Jersey City/Hoboken since it expands the Scranton labor pool.

[MikMal]

I see where there is an article in the 11/30/2020 Citizens Voice newspaper out of Wilkes-Barre on this subject. Nothing definitive.

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by MikMal

I see where there is an article in the 11/30/2020 Citizens Voice newspaper out of Wilkes-Barre on this subject. Nothing definitive.

Even Matt Cartwright (D-8) seems skeptical. Cartwright was just reelected by a comfortable margin and can afford to be honest.

[Dangerous-Boy]

Amtrak proposes adding passenger train route from New York City to Scranton




https://www.mcall.com/news/pennsylva...wm4-story.html


Scranton needs this. All those rail cars rotting by the steamtown mall is depressing

[jtab4994]

“You have to take that with a grain of salt because ... we’ve heard this kind of thing before from Amtrak management,” [Congressman Matt] Cartwright [D-8] said. “They want to link up Scranton so that they can access the the southern tier of New York (Binghamton). And all of that makes great, good sense. But they’re the gung-ho rail guys. They’re not the people who pay for it. It could happen, I mean, because we’ve got a lot of political muscle in New York that would like that.”

In the year 2020 the "gung-ho rail guys" have none of the clout they had in 1920. Nobody, not even "Amtrak Joe" Biden, is going to put a choo-choo in Scranton just because "it would be cool". If all the historic Pullman cars sitting at Steamtown in the rain is depressing, then send them to the scrap yard or give them away to enthusiasts who will raise money to restore them.

[quiet life]

Such a pipe dream. It's going to take tens of billions of dollars to make this happen. NJ Transit, MTA, Septa, etc. alone is lobbying Washington for tens of billions of dollars each that has been lost because of low ridership during this pandemic. You think a new route from Scranton to NYC, with projected low ridership, will capture anyone's attention?