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Well, my guy Stipe Miocic was put to sleep yesterday by "The Predator". Jon Jones has been bulking up for a move to heavyweight and he says he wants the heavyweight belt, which means Ngannou. I'd actually like to see that fight, as I don't care for Jones, and I think Ngannou just might shut him up. Many people consider Jones the all-around GOAT - can he move up to heavyweight to take that belt too?
This is a very dangerous fight for Jones. I definitely view him as the underdog here. In my opinion, he can't stand up to Ngannou's power. As some point he's going to get hit and we'll see what Jones is really made of.
A Ngannou versus Jones fight reminds me of the Mike Spinks-Mike Tyson fight of 1988. In the early to mid 80s, Spinks was a very successful light heavyweight. Then he moved up to heavyweight to challenge Tyson in the summer. That spring, Tyson had brutally knocked out the legendary Larry Holmes very similar to how Ngannou knocked out Stipe. In preparation, Spinks put on a lot of weight.
In hindsight, it appears the weight gain slowed him down significantly to the point where his timing was really off. Tyson knocked out Spinks very quickly. The best description I saw of that fight was by Jose Torres in his book about Tyson. As a former boxer, Torres learned how to read boxers' body languages, tricks, and general "feel" of the calm before the storm. He pointed out that Spinks grossly feared Tyson underneath which showed in his body language. He was annihilated.
In much the same way, I think Jones could get pummeled. The weight gain which ostensibly is meant to give him "power" will instead slow him down too much and ruin his fight plan. Jones is accustomed to using speed, and he should stick to that instead. Since he is out of Albuquerque, he should just do wind sprints up Sandia Peak and keep his weight low (perhaps 210 or 215) and rely on extreme speed. As for wrestling, he could use the college technique of winning on points with slow weardowns per period rather than a quick submission. Turn it into a 5 round fight with extreme speed, efficient timing, and finesse wrestling meant to gain points and wear out Ngannou. Over time, he could find an opening and get a knockout. But instead the weight gain will likely ruin his fight plan much as it did for Spinks decades ago. He broke down and cried with all his medals around his neck after that fight.
As for Stipe, he was a great well-rounded fighter with a strong chin. In the first fight, he exposed Ngannou's lack of wrestling experience. It looked like a college senior with 10 years of experience wrestling a freshman with no experience. Despite the extreme disparity in wrestling training, it was surprising that Stipe wasn't able to submit Ngannou. This was a testament to Ngannou's natural physical strength and stamina built for MMA. When the fight was over, I could tell Ngannou wanted a 2nd chance. He struck me as a guy who would likely do a root cause analysis and fix his lack of training in other areas of MMA like kicks and wrestling. His new camp more than made up for that after three years.
Meanwhile, Stipe's trilogy with Daniel took its toll. From being middle aged myself, I know that the first noticable injuries often occur in the mid to late 30s that seriously set back athletic agility. The fierce training and fights with Daniel likely led to damage to ligaments and joints for Stipe along with peripheral neuropathy due to excessive blows to the head. Ultimately, it just slows him down and wears him out - leaving him at higher risk for "losing the strong chin". In my opinion, he should have retired after the last fight with Daniel. He had already beaten Ngannou earlier.
When the fight was about to start, I quickly looked for PPV on cable and found that I had to go to ESPN+ instead. So, I did that and got to watch the fight live. I honestly appreciate the professionalism of both fighters and was not rooting for any particular outcome. Stipe is a first responder with a strong blue collar work ethic and great athletic talent. Ngannou overcame extreme poverty and homelessness in immigrating to France. I figured that he would eventually regain his streak once he learned from his mistakes in the Stipe fight. My view was just let the best fighter win.
The main thing I noticed was that Ngannou started with low leg kicks which appeared to catch Stipe by surprise. This led to awkward spacing and timing. Stipe also appeared frustrated by jabs. Then the high kick to the face looked just plain brutal. After that, Stipe tried for a takedown which Ngannou countered effectively with a sprawl. Then he actually got on Stipe's back and rained down some punches. That exchange appeared to (1) mentally destroy Stipe's confidence and (2) hurt him physically. It looked painful. Then in the 2nd round Stipe was off. Francis caught him with a quick jab and hook that knocked him out.
In my opinion, Stipe may have had a false confidence on his wrestling pedigree. The problem with wrestling is that some children get a very, very early head start (age 5, 6, 7, etc) compared to other kids who might not start until the middle of high school or later. When this disparity in background happens, it sometimes gives the experienced wrestler false confidence. He may not actually be the better wrestler per se - he was just lucky with an extra ten years of training and knowledge of many more moves . But Francis was willing to learn wrestling and caught up to Stipe's level within three very short years. This is a testament to a higher level of talent. It's time for Stipe to retire, and it looks like Jones must now pay divine retribution for all the trouble he has caused in Albuquerque. Those with roots in the area know what I mean.
I love Stipe - highly skilled fighter in all phases and love his humble, straightforward attitude. But this version of Ngannou was just too much for him. That take-down attempt in the first round ended disastrously. with Stipe eating maybe half a dozen good shots - he's not talking, but when he finally gets some distance and respite, he looks like he's thinking "Uh-oh, what just happened there?". And Ngannou landed a few good leg kicks and even a body shot or two, while Stipe really didn't have much in the way of successful offense anywhere until the point where he was knocked down in the 2nd round. There's talk of a trilogy, but unless he has some entirely different approach (new coaches?), I don't think he should get back in with Ngannou.
I agree with the two previous posters on a Jones fight. You can never count Jon Jones out, he's very fast and very creative, especially fighting in close. He fights like a much smaller man than he is in terms of his athleticism and agility. But he actually looked flabby at 250lb or whatever in a recent training video that was making the rounds, so I don't see the weight gain really helping him - might just hurt him by slowing him down. He's never going to overpower Ngannou anyway - his chance will lie in superior speed and agility, movement.
Ngannou would win. That is, more than 50-50. But Ngannou needs to be aggressive. Inexplicably, he has sat back and let the fight come to him on a few occasions. If he comes out swinging, he'll eventually harm Jones. And his wrstling skills are just good enough now.
Well, it looks like Dana White and Jon Jones are currently farrrrr apart on what the pay should be for this matchup, so it might take quite awhile to get agreement, or, it might never happen. https://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Jo...ou-Bout-178530
A Ngannou versus Jones fight reminds me of the Mike Spinks-Mike Tyson fight of 1988. In the early to mid 80s, Spinks was a very successful light heavyweight. Then he moved up to heavyweight to challenge Tyson in the summer. That spring, Tyson had brutally knocked out the legendary Larry Holmes very similar to how Ngannou knocked out Stipe. In preparation, Spinks put on a lot of weight.
In hindsight, it appears the weight gain slowed him down significantly to the point where his timing was really off. Tyson knocked out Spinks very quickly. The best description I saw of that fight was by Jose Torres in his book about Tyson. As a former boxer, Torres learned how to read boxers' body languages, tricks, and general "feel" of the calm before the storm. He pointed out that Spinks grossly feared Tyson underneath which showed in his body language. He was annihilated.
In much the same way, I think Jones could get pummeled. The weight gain which ostensibly is meant to give him "power" will instead slow him down too much and ruin his fight plan. Jones is accustomed to using speed, and he should stick to that instead. Since he is out of Albuquerque, he should just do wind sprints up Sandia Peak and keep his weight low (perhaps 210 or 215) and rely on extreme speed. As for wrestling, he could use the college technique of winning on points with slow weardowns per period rather than a quick submission. Turn it into a 5 round fight with extreme speed, efficient timing, and finesse wrestling meant to gain points and wear out Ngannou. Over time, he could find an opening and get a knockout. But instead the weight gain will likely ruin his fight plan much as it did for Spinks decades ago. He broke down and cried with all his medals around his neck after that fight.
As for Stipe, he was a great well-rounded fighter with a strong chin. In the first fight, he exposed Ngannou's lack of wrestling experience. It looked like a college senior with 10 years of experience wrestling a freshman with no experience. Despite the extreme disparity in wrestling training, it was surprising that Stipe wasn't able to submit Ngannou. This was a testament to Ngannou's natural physical strength and stamina built for MMA. When the fight was over, I could tell Ngannou wanted a 2nd chance. He struck me as a guy who would likely do a root cause analysis and fix his lack of training in other areas of MMA like kicks and wrestling. His new camp more than made up for that after three years.
Meanwhile, Stipe's trilogy with Daniel took its toll. From being middle aged myself, I know that the first noticable injuries often occur in the mid to late 30s that seriously set back athletic agility. The fierce training and fights with Daniel likely led to damage to ligaments and joints for Stipe along with peripheral neuropathy due to excessive blows to the head. Ultimately, it just slows him down and wears him out - leaving him at higher risk for "losing the strong chin". In my opinion, he should have retired after the last fight with Daniel. He had already beaten Ngannou earlier.
When the fight was about to start, I quickly looked for PPV on cable and found that I had to go to ESPN+ instead. So, I did that and got to watch the fight live. I honestly appreciate the professionalism of both fighters and was not rooting for any particular outcome. Stipe is a first responder with a strong blue collar work ethic and great athletic talent. Ngannou overcame extreme poverty and homelessness in immigrating to France. I figured that he would eventually regain his streak once he learned from his mistakes in the Stipe fight. My view was just let the best fighter win.
The main thing I noticed was that Ngannou started with low leg kicks which appeared to catch Stipe by surprise. This led to awkward spacing and timing. Stipe also appeared frustrated by jabs. Then the high kick to the face looked just plain brutal. After that, Stipe tried for a takedown which Ngannou countered effectively with a sprawl. Then he actually got on Stipe's back and rained down some punches. That exchange appeared to (1) mentally destroy Stipe's confidence and (2) hurt him physically. It looked painful. Then in the 2nd round Stipe was off. Francis caught him with a quick jab and hook that knocked him out.
In my opinion, Stipe may have had a false confidence on his wrestling pedigree. The problem with wrestling is that some children get a very, very early head start (age 5, 6, 7, etc) compared to other kids who might not start until the middle of high school or later. When this disparity in background happens, it sometimes gives the experienced wrestler false confidence. He may not actually be the better wrestler per se - he was just lucky with an extra ten years of training and knowledge of many more moves . But Francis was willing to learn wrestling and caught up to Stipe's level within three very short years. This is a testament to a higher level of talent. It's time for Stipe to retire, and it looks like Jones must now pay divine retribution for all the trouble he has caused in Albuquerque. Those with roots in the area know what I mean.
That bolded part is interesting, as Jones actually was a very good HS and college wrestler here in NY. So, perhaps he is thinking that he could expose this weakness in Ngannou's fight game.
Jon has a lot of tools in his arsenals. Francis has the knockout power but if you look at the fight with Stipe he was mouth breathing in the 2nd round. Stipe should have used more wrestling in the 1st round to gas him out.
I do believe the Jones should seek an easy fight at heavyweight to adjust to the new division but I would not count out Jones in a fight vs Francis. All Jones has to do is keep the distance from Francis and use his wrestling to gas him out early in the fight.
You could see in the second fight that Ngannou's wrestling has improved significantly since the first fight. While I am sure that Stipe's wrestling is better on a technical level still, he's also at a *big* size and strength disadvantage. He went for that one takedown in the second fight, and not only did he fail to get the takedown, Ngannou quickly took his back and delivered some 10 punches to the side of the head which Stipe clearly did not enjoy. He managed to escape, but much more of that and he could possibly have been finished that way too.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 04-04-2021 at 06:53 AM..
Welp, it looks like negotiations may have failed, as Dana White has said that he won't meet Jones' demands and he wants to see Derrick Lewis rematch Ngannou.
The UFC pays top fighters a combination of (a) upfront guaranteed sum (b) performance bonus (c) a share in pay-per-view revenues. From what I could find, the highest they've ever paid out for a+b is $6 million. Apparently they were willing to discuss considerably more than that as possibilities for Jones/Ngannou - $8-10 million, but Jon Jones and his camp were demanding far higher. The PPV revenues make sense as the dominant component in my opinion. The amount can be unpredictable and the UFC doesn't want to speculate on those and pay huge guaranteed money and then come up short. If the fight is a big success with fans, the UFC and the fighter both win though PPV revenue sharing, and if the fight has disappointing PPV buys, the UFC is still protected. Jones though wants huge guaranteed money, and it doesn't look like the UFC will yield. I'd like to see this fight, but I don't blame them, to be honest.
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