Missouri North/South Dividing Line (Kansas City, St. Louis: house, school, live)

[4everMissouri]

From my experience the southern influence begins in either Ste. Gen County or Perry County and becomes truly southern in Scott County, with Cape County somewhere in between. But I only regularly travel around Eastern Missouri and have only been west a few times so my judgement on the whole southern half of the state may be flawed and I am curious on what y'all's thoughts are on this matter.


Anyways here is a cool map describing my perspective on the whole thing.




Where would you draw the line?

Inspired by a West Virginia thread I found.

[eddie gein]

Always an interesting thread although you are likely to get people saying it has been "done to death".

To add to the fascination of Missouri is the fact that historically, they say that the Missouri river valley was called "Little Dixie" because that is where the traditional southern plantation area of the state was antebellum.

And what is interesting about it is that that area is north of what people consider the "southern" part of Missouri these days.

[TRex2]

I used to draw the line around I-44, but lately I draw it from Farmington to Jefferson City, and West to Harrison.

I don't really go with a straight "North-South" division, since St Louis and Kansas City alter the human mosaic like a hurricane alters weather patterns, or a volcano alters soil composition.

[SunGrins]

Maybe this is the thread that will end this silly fixation. We can only hope.

I would agree with the OP's red tier of counties being the most southern. Those counties represent a very small percentage of state population -- sparsely populated until you get over toward Poplar Bluff and the Bootheel. The largest towns are Poplar Bluff, West Plains, and tourism-driven Branson. The lake areas tend to attract a variety of people. I would consider all the rest of the state to be in the yellow zone with some slight southern influence to none. There will be a few pockets of orange. Maybe Marion County (Hannibal) and Lafayette County (Lexington) would be orange-ish where there is some tourism interest in promoting southern-ness. Callaway County, Ray County, Cooper County, and a couple others might still have some "Little Dixie" southern influences.

The Missouri River and Mississippi River counties have a lingering river culture with a strong German heritage in many places. Almost every county from Cole County to St. Louis is very German and can be very Catholic or Lutheran. That continues south along the Mississippi River counties, in varying degrees, to Perry County. The iron and lead mining district counties had an influx of miners, some from Europe. The Ozark counties are more Appalachian in culture than southern.

I had a traveling state auditor job and had to visit each county seat for a few days on a two-year cycle. There are some places that stand out by degrees with a little more or less local flavor. The most obvious determining factor is a rural vs urban mindset. There is a rural Missouri drawl, even in some northern counties, that people might mistake for a southern characteristic. There are traces of river culture in towns from St. Joseph to Hannibal and Cape Girardeau along the big rivers. Some of those places were historically exposed to ideas or cultural exchange that other towns missed.

https://www.worldofmaps.net/typo3tem...issouri-01.png

[TRex2]

Originally Posted by SunGrins

Maybe this is the thread that will end this silly fixation. We can only hope.

...

Nope. The rabbit hole just gets deeper.
The more you know, the more questions you have.

My first and foremost takeaway is that this is a multi dimensional issue.

[GunnerTHB]

Personally, I don't see any southern influence in Ste. Genevieve County. I don't really see any in Perry County either. With that being said, I think Cape Girardeau County being Orange is correct. The divide is pretty sharp in that part of the state. You can find native Midwesterners and Southerners in both Cape Girardeau and Scott Counties. Every settlement has its own character based on who settled there.

I lived in Phelps County, I agree with it being in yellow. With that being said, Southern and Midwestern in the Ozarks isn't the same as it is in Southeast Missouri. Personally I believe the Ozarks are more of an old school pioneer culture regardless of North or South.

[Outer_Bluegrass]

I have extensively traveled the U.S. Route 60 corridor in southern Missouri, and I am in disbelief that people consider that area to be culturally Southern. To me, that area does not feel similar to the “real” South, mostly because people do not speak with Southern accents and fancy stereotypically Midwestern things, such as frozen custard, for example.

[NearFantastica]

I've always considered Missouri to be culturally Southern even though it's technically Midwest. Kinda like how we consider Virginia and Maryland to be culturally Northern even though they're Southern

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Outer_Bluegrass

I have extensively traveled the U.S. Route 60 corridor in southern Missouri, and I am in disbelief that people consider that area to be culturally Southern. To me, that area does not feel similar to the “real” South, mostly because people do not speak with Southern accents and fancy stereotypically Midwestern things, such as frozen custard, for example.

It's upper south Ozarks. Very different than the deep south or the Missouri Bootheel for example.

Map is pretty good except the red counties, not a straight line, because in south central Missouri that southern line should jet north a bit. Dialect maps also support that.

Last time I was in Branson before "season" I heard a number of ozarks style southern accents.

You will still also find pockets in the Little Dixie areas that have noticeable southern influences in pockets, especially more west you go.

My uncle used to have a house at Bull Shoals in southern Missouri about 5 miles from Arkansas. Nothing midwestern about it. In a Ozarks way though.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by TRex2

I used to draw the line around I-44, but lately I draw it from Farmington to Jefferson City, and West to Harrison.

I don't really go with a straight "North-South" division, since St Louis and Kansas City alter the human mosaic like a hurricane alters weather patterns, or a volcano alters soil composition.

Farmington is in that north south transition zone but it isn't fully southern! Now around Fredericktown I would argue that's southern but Farmington is in that transition zone.

The thing about Missouri is though even in modern times I don't know how to explain it, but even somewhere like St. Louis county for example while it's midwestern, there is just something a bit different still. I mean like underlying. It seems a bit different than Ohio or Indiana. Like in many many years past it was different but it just seems slightly different than the other midwestern states. Even though St. Louis isn't a southern city in modern times it seems it still makes it slightly different to this day. Can't explain it but just looks and feels a very tad different than Ohio for example.

I think I44 is a good road to use to describe this transition zone. When you leave St. Louis county you gradually notice it beginning. Southernness really begins to pick up as you're driving into Pulaski county.

Far the far eastern counties the red tier is fine, but in the ozark regions that tier needs to be extended a county north.

The transition zone starts around the MO river in Missouri and ends about 15 miles north of US60. South of that is southern. North of that is like a transition zone like southern Indiana, more midwestern further north you go.