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But if you look at the county that contains the original pre-WW2 City of Kansas City, Mo. and most of its Missouri-side suburbs, Jackson County, Mo., is more densely populated than Johnson County, Kan. And much of that is due to the density of the Jackson County portion of Kansas City. JoCo has nothing like the high-rise apartment tower canyon across Brush Creek from the Country Club Plaza along West 48th Street, or even the older Armour Boulevard in Hyde Park.
It would just be easiest to look at it on the census tract level density and population in that case. Johnson county is still denser than Jackson county overall. Places like less summit, blue springs and independence aren’t really dense and have big gaps between them. The census tracts around the crossroads is less dense than most census tracts in Overland Park. Although the CBD and plaza areas do have the highest densities in the metro area their populations aren’t very high. The CBD only has around 10,000 people. Most of the pre-ww2 areas have lost so much population due to white flight and crime. Places east of troost have really lost their density. Only the historic northeast has some left. The highest density census tract I can find in Overland Park is around 8,300 ppsm which is about 1,000 less than the densest one in midtown. There is 1 census tract in the plaza at 19,000 ppsm but it seems like it’s right on those apartments you were talking about and doesn’t take up much else and isn’t very populous at only about 1,800 people. Places like Waldo in kcmo are less dense than much of Johnson county. It’s due to all the multifamily being added in JOCO and townhomes and such because not as many people can afford those giant houses on giant lots. As far as JOCO not having high-rise apartments that’s true but there are massive 6 story apartment building being built with just as many units. Look at these examples; 159th and metcalf is adding 900 units on one property and the brook ridge development is adding 2,000 units and 4 million square feet of office on one property that’s over half as much of office space as downtown KC on one lot
Brook ridge development 2,000 units 4 million sq feet of office (has enough units to fill up two light KC 7 times) and enough office to fill one KC place over 4 times (depending on where you’re getting your source for the square footage) https://governor.kansas.gov/governor...overland-park/
It would just be easiest to look at it on the census tract level density and population in that case. Johnson county is still denser than Jackson county overall. Places like less summit, blue springs and independence aren’t really dense and have big gaps between them. The census tracts around the crossroads is less dense than most census tracts in Overland Park. Although the CBD and plaza areas do have the highest densities in the metro area their populations aren’t very high. The CBD only has around 10,000 people. Most of the pre-ww2 areas have lost so much population due to white flight and crime. Places east of troost have really lost their density. Only the historic northeast has some left. The highest density census tract I can find in Overland Park is around 8,300 ppsm which is about 1,000 less than the densest one in midtown. There is 1 census tract in the plaza at 19,000 ppsm but it seems like it’s right on those apartments you were talking about and doesn’t take up much else and isn’t very populous at only about 1,800 people. Places like Waldo in kcmo are less dense than much of Johnson county. It’s due to all the multifamily being added in JOCO and townhomes and such because not as many people can afford those giant houses on giant lots. As far as JOCO not having high-rise apartments that’s true but there are massive 6 story apartment building being built with just as many units. Look at these examples; 159th and metcalf is adding 900 units on one property and the brook ridge development is adding 2,000 units and 4 million square feet of office on one property that’s over half as much of office space as downtown KC on one lot
Brook ridge development 2,000 units 4 million sq feet of office (has enough units to fill up two light KC 7 times) and enough office to fill one KC place over 4 times (depending on where you’re getting your source for the square footage) https://governor.kansas.gov/governor...overland-park/
The density measure you were using is at the county, not the census tract, level, and at that level, Jackson County is denser than Johnson County, period.
I'm well aware that the old Black neighborhoods east of Troost and north of 31st have emptied out (I even pointed this out in one of two sidebars I wrote for a 2015 Next City feature on the Power & Light District), and that KC's downtown and Crossroads districts are less dense than they ought to be because of all the land devoted to surface parking lots. But overall, not based on the number of dense Census tracts, Jackson County is denser than Johnson County:
And note that both counties densified over the 2010s. Quit shifting the goalposts to favor your argument. In the rest of my post, JoCo homer, I did note where JoCo had it all over Jackson County or OP had it over KC.
And once again, Johnson County is not a city. Unlike the county to its north, it has not engaged in city-county consolidation — I doubt that would go down well in the 50-odd municipalities of northeast and central Johnson County.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 03-24-2024 at 08:18 PM..
And once again, Johnson County is not a city. Unlike the county to its north, it has not engaged in city-county consolidation — I doubt that would go down well in the 50-odd municipalities of northeast and central Johnson County.
I think you’re saying it backwards, the reference is conflicting your statement, Johnson County is denser overall according to the census website. Yes I’m aware JOCO isn’t actually a city in the municipal boundaries sense and is a county. But it’s uninterrupted development with no big empty development gaps in between. Whereas in Jackson county, blue springs is mostly disconnected from independence and lees summit and lees summit is disconnected from kcmo. And kcmo that is a “city” as in one municipality seems to have the northland completely disconnected from south of the river. I used to live by blue springs 6 years ago and would go to blue springs and less summit often. Also keep in mind that there are some more dense census tracts around midtown and downtown but they are quite a bit smaller in area than the census tracts around Overland Park and have smaller populations. It’s not moving goalposts , yes parts of midtown/plaza and the central business district (within the loop) is denser than most parts of Overland Park, or Johnson county. But Johnson county is still denser overall which you just verified by the references in your post. Actually if you look at these 2 radius maps you will see there’s actually more people living within a 5 mile radius of downtown Overland Park than Downtown kcmo. I do like your articles and greatly appreciate them.
5 mile radius population around downtown kcmo (this does dip into Kansas but it covers all the way from the plaza to the river and the entire east side to state line) https://demographicsbyradius.com/mis...kansas-city-mo
I think you’re saying it backwards, the reference is conflicting your statement, Johnson County is denser overall according to the census website. Yes I’m aware JOCO isn’t actually a city in the municipal boundaries sense and is a county. But it’s uninterrupted development with no big empty development gaps in between. Whereas in Jackson county, blue springs is mostly disconnected from independence and lees summit and lees summit is disconnected from kcmo. And kcmo that is a “city” as in one municipality seems to have the northland completely disconnected from south of the river. I used to live by blue springs 6 years ago and would go to blue springs and less summit often. Also keep in mind that there are some more dense census tracts around midtown and downtown but they are quite a bit smaller in area than the census tracts around Overland Park and have smaller populations. It’s not moving goalposts , yes parts of midtown/plaza and the central business district (within the loop) is denser than most parts of Overland Park, or Johnson county. But Johnson county is still denser overall which you just verified by the references in your post. Actually if you look at these 2 radius maps you will see there’s actually more people living within a 5 mile radius of downtown Overland Park than Downtown kcmo. I do like your articles and greatly appreciate them.
5 mile radius population around downtown kcmo (this does dip into Kansas but it covers all the way from the plaza to the river and the entire east side to state line) https://demographicsbyradius.com/mis...kansas-city-mo
Yes, I did get that backwards. I apologize.
Those 5-mile radius figures are interesting indeed. Of course, since (besides Blacks and Hispanics) the only thing JoCo lacks is poor people, the 5-mile radius around the downtown freeway loop is going to be poorer than the 5-mile radius around the 8700 block of Santa Fe Drive.
Which is OP's historic downtown but not its actual commercial center anymore. That's out on College Boulevard. OP remains the region's premier — sole, AFAICT — edge city, which is a new form of "downtown" shaped by the Auto Age and which has appeared in many developed countries.
And maybe more to your point, while Jackson County remains the most populous in the region, it's growing more slowly than JoCo is, and more people live in JoCo than in Kansas City, Mo. Which raises a quiestion I think KCMo officials occasionally raise: Do the people of JoCo have any responsiblity to look after the impoverished residents of the two Kansas Cities?
Those 5-mile radius figures are interesting indeed. Of course, since (besides Blacks and Hispanics) the only thing JoCo lacks is poor people, the 5-mile radius around the downtown freeway loop is going to be poorer than the 5-mile radius around the 8700 block of Santa Fe Drive.
Which is OP's historic downtown but not its actual commercial center anymore. That's out on College Boulevard. OP remains the region's premier — sole, AFAICT — edge city, which is a new form of "downtown" shaped by the Auto Age and which has appeared in many developed countries.
And maybe more to your point, while Jackson County remains the most populous in the region, it's growing more slowly than JoCo is, and more people live in JoCo than in Kansas City, Mo. Which raises a quiestion I think KCMo officials occasionally raise: Do the people of JoCo have any responsiblity to look after the impoverished residents of the two Kansas Cities?
Although JOCO is lacking black people it’s getting more diverse each year. Johnson county actually has a higher percentage of Asians than Jackson county, (over double) and Johnson countys Hispanic percentage is 8.5% compared to Jackson county at 10.1%. ( you can confirm Asians and Hispanics on the census quick-facts link you listed) and the largest concentration of people from India in the KC area are in south Overland Park. To me Jackson County still seems very segregated, just because there’s more black people, doesn’t mean it’s being handled well. Because most of those minorities are in the poorer areas and the white people are along ward parkway and such. I’m half Hispanic and living in Johnson county and know many other Hispanics. There seems to be the racist old people from a while ago but the younger kids (I know teachers) especially in the blue valley districts that say students come in all different races now. Nothing like it was like when I was little. When I was growing I remember my elementary school of 750 people had 1 black family in Leawood. I live in south OP right now and as far as college boulevard, I think it’s becoming the largest employment corridor in the KC region. It’s very car dependent right now but there’s actually a plan that has been created to make it walkable and add multifamily. Now how can JOCO look after the impoverished residents? Idk kcmo is in another state and kck is in a different county so it seems like there’s no easy answer on how to fix that.
Although JOCO is lacking black people it’s getting more diverse each year. Johnson county actually has a higher percentage of Asians than Jackson county, (over double) and Johnson countys Hispanic percentage is 8.5% compared to Jackson county at 10.1%. ( you can confirm Asians and Hispanics on the census quick-facts link you listed) and the largest concentration of people from India in the KC area are in south Overland Park. To me Jackson County still seems very segregated, just because there’s more black people, doesn’t mean it’s being handled well. Because most of those minorities are in the poorer areas and the white people are along ward parkway and such. I’m half Hispanic and living in Johnson county and know many other Hispanics. There seems to be the racist old people from a while ago but the younger kids (I know teachers) especially in the blue valley districts that say students come in all different races now. Nothing like it was like when I was little. When I was growing I remember my elementary school of 750 people had 1 black family in Leawood. I live in south OP right now and as far as college boulevard, I think it’s becoming the largest employment corridor in the KC region. It’s very car dependent right now but there’s actually a plan that has been created to make it walkable and add multifamily. Now how can JOCO look after the impoverished residents? Idk kcmo is in another state and kck is in a different county so it seems like there’s no easy answer on how to fix that.
I like what I read in that Johnson County Post article, especially the road diet part. The solution for College Boulevard and Metcalf Avenue, OTOH, is one of those things only a highway engineer would love. Still, the City of Overland Park is moving in the right direction for improving its central business district.
Your point about jurisdictions is well taken. It might take the formation of some sort of bi-state regional organization along the lines of what Clay Chastain put together to reclaim KC Union Station.
Last edited by Yac; 03-27-2024 at 12:39 AM..
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