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Old 02-11-2024, 04:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer114 View Post
Perhaps “Democratic talking points” are closer to Judaism (and Christianity) than your values?
They are in the south where a revisionist history is starting for the terror that gripped southern states in the 1950's is starting. Even Citizens Councils are now being portrayed as a kind of Chamber of Commerce. As those of us who grew up in that era know, ignoring the requests of the Citizens Councils might be followed by the KKK.

In the south, exploring, knowing our history can be painful. It's not pretty, but just as Jewish history needs to be explored and known so is southern history and that includes slavery and Reconstruction. Its painful sometimes but also a source of pride that many synagogues were on the forefront of the Civil Rights movement which made them targets.

Last edited by webster; 02-11-2024 at 04:40 AM..
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Old 02-14-2024, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Land of the Free
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer114 View Post
Perhaps “Democratic talking points” are closer to Judaism (and Christianity) than your values?
I think you might be right about Judaism, but not Christianity.

Post-Jesus, post-Second Temple Judaism went heavy on legalism with the writing of the Talmud and the advancement of Tikkun Olam at the same time that Christianity, heavy on grace and the concept that you're already saved, was spreading throughout the Roman Empire. While there are many groups within Christianity, it has the simple message that salvation is through accepting Jesus, while Judaism has all kinds of laws, mitzvot/good deeds, and tasks you're supposed to complete, and that salvation is a collective effort. God led the Jews out of Egypt as a collective redemption, and it's recognized today by eating matza, clearing your house of unleavened bread, wearing yarmulkes, doing that wine on the plate thing, hiding the matza from the kids at the Seder, pouring a cup for Elijah, and tons of other activities. Jesus dying for our sins in an individual redemption, dependent only on accepting him as our savior, no other deeds necessary.

The result is that non-Orthodox Judaism has become a religion of society and Christianity one of the individual. Judaism's rejection of Jesus had a lot to do with him NOT bringing some poverty free, war free utopia the messiah is supposed to bring, but rather the principle of unmerited grace, which offers individuals salvation, not societal salvation. So just as the Apostle Paul (a Jew born Saul) was going on around saying you don't need circumcision or deeds to be saved, the remaining Jews doubled down on deeds and acts.

The result of all this is that Judaism centers on a better society, and addressing societal injustice. Many Christians do as well, but it's not the focus of the religion, rather your personal relationship with Jesus is. I can't imagine my pastor giving a sermon about climate change, Trump, Biden, or any political topic, it's usually a story of making your life better with references to the Bible and personal anecdotes. Jews don't believe in unmerited grace, so being "a good person", or a good member of society, by giving to charity, saving the whales, fighting climate change, supporting racial justice etc, comes to the fore. In Christianity, we hear a lot more about personal struggles, like overcoming addiction, having better personal relationships, fighting personal adversity, and individual issues.

Politically, this Jewish perspective can lead to guilting and shaming people who think corporations should pay lower taxes, or that foreign policy should focus on national security over human rights. Whether taught explicitly or not, Tikkun Olam and this idea of "no savior until utopia comes" influences modern non-Orthodox Jewish thought. Meanwhile, Orthodox Judaism goes so far into the religious deeds that it becomes personal, not unlike Christianity, just with the exact opposite view of grace vs. works/deeds. As a result, it doesn't seem to have the same make society better focus as non-Orthodox because none of it matters if you're not praying three times a day, laying tefillin whenever you're supposed to, wearing a yarmulke at all times, etc. I like the following quote in the linked article.

As one joke common in Orthodox circles has it: “There are two kinds of Jews, those who favor tikkun olam and those who understand Hebrew.”

https://sapirjournal.org/social-just...f-tikkun-olam/
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Old 02-14-2024, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Land of the Free
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Interesting article on the topic.

https://forward.com/community/459392...of-synagogues/
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Old 02-14-2024, 06:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11 View Post
That's pretty much my experience. While Trump was in office, and my liberal friends & acquaintances were going crazy (literally), I ordered a yarmulke from a New York supplier that said "Make America great again!" in Hebrew on the front; on the back was a Hebrew transliteration of Donald Trump and Mike Pence. This company didn't seem partisan, by the way; they also had a Hillary yarmulke and several others. It was just a promotional/fun kind of novelty product during an election year.

I wore it to services one Saturday, just for fun. Yeah, I do have an ornery side. An older woman behind me was studying my yarmulke and as soon as the prayers were over, she confronted me and started attacking Donald Trump, one of those "Don't you realize what a monster he is?" kinds of rants. I told her this was neither the time nor place for such a discussion. By the way, my dad had passed away recently and I was still in mourning.

It was this, and a few other such incidents, that convinced me to leave this synagogue. If this was just a one-off, maybe I'd have stayed. But I could go on and on about all the weirdness in this place, the number of children who have been encouraged by their parents & teachers to "find their genders", all the political correctness in the prayers.... At high holy days a year ago, during the al het [a recitation of our sins], they had a special page of al het for our racist sins. Nope. Not gonna recite that garbage.
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Old 02-14-2024, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Land of the Free
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Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
At high holy days a year ago, during the al het [a recitation of our sins], they had a special page of al het for our racist sins. Nope. Not gonna recite that garbage.
Good for standing up for what you believe in. I hope you can find a spiritual community that doesn't try to indoctrinate people like that and where you feel welcome.
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Old 02-16-2024, 12:24 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webster View Post
March 27, 1863 was declared by Jefferson Davis as a day of prayer for the Confederacy. Participating in that was the Jewish Synagogue in Richmond, Beth Ahabah. Rabbi Michelbacher delivered a sermon which included the statement that the "The duties of the citizen are so intimately associated with the services he owes to G-d..."
I have next to my bed, two or three down my "to be read" list is Pierce Butler's biography of Judah Benjamin. I will address the OP separately.
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Old 02-16-2024, 12:28 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
This is not intended to be a political posting; I'm hoping to discuss the changing Jewish culture and how synagogues are adapting, or failing to adapt as the case may be, and avoid getting into a left-versus-right debate.**************
In my way of thinking, a synagogue should be a haven for all Jews, not just Democrats. Nor, for that matter, for just conservatives. It should be a "big tent" that welcomes everyone. The Rabbi's job should not be to tell people how to vote.
I am with you on all points. We have not resigned, because my wife and I agreed to remain affiliated with a synagogue when we married.

Our synagogue has trended left as well, but they have, at least, not shed their Zionism. To their credit, they fired a Hebrew school teacher who, in her blogging, spelled "Israel" without capitalization, and was otherwise very disrespectful of Israel. On the other hand they recite slavishly every other leftist mantra, including "climate change," abortion and DEI. I must say, in passing, that our Cantor delivered a powerful, pro-choice sermon before Kol Nidre. I was not offended since I am pro-choice, though I can think of better times than Kol Nidre to address Dobbs. I think there is insufficient appreciate of the fact that some Jews may be "closet conservatives." There should be room for discussion. Sadly, there isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
That's pretty much my experience. While Trump was in office, and my liberal friends & acquaintances were going crazy (literally), I ordered a yarmulke from a New York supplier that said "Make America great again!" in Hebrew on the front; on the back was a Hebrew transliteration of Donald Trump and Mike Pence. This company didn't seem partisan, by the way; they also had a Hillary yarmulke and several others. It was just a promotional/fun kind of novelty product during an election year.

I wore it to services one Saturday, just for fun. Yeah, I do have an ornery side. An older woman behind me was studying my yarmulke and as soon as the prayers were over, she confronted me and started attacking Donald Trump, one of those "Don't you realize what a monster he is?" kinds of rants. I told her this was neither the time nor place for such a discussion. By the way, my dad had passed away recently and I was still in mourning.

It was this, and a few other such incidents, that convinced me to leave this synagogue. If this was just a one-off, maybe I'd have stayed. But I could go on and on about all the weirdness in this place, the number of children who have been encouraged by their parents & teachers to "find their genders", all the political correctness in the prayers.... At high holy days a year ago, during the al het [a recitation of our sins], they had a special page of al het for our racist sins. Nope. Not gonna recite that garbage.
The day after Donald Trump was elected President, the synagogue held a "healing" session for those who were upset. When my turn to speak came, I mentioned that our neighbor to the North, Canada had given Stephen Harper, a pro-Israel Conservative a majority and that it was not the end of the world. She responded, "yes it was" and she promptly dissolved into a ball of tears. Now, she seemed to be rather affluent, and not likely to have her life ruined by Trump. I tried to have a rational discussion after and I could not.

Last edited by jbgusa; 02-16-2024 at 12:41 PM..
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Old 02-17-2024, 08:30 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
At the time I quit, I sent letters to both synagogues explaining why I was leaving. I'll give the Conservative one a bit of credit; the assistant rabbi, a young woman who as far as I can tell keeps her politics to herself, called me on the phone and tried to persuade me to stay. "You could represent your viewpoint," she suggested.
Given declining membership of synagogues (and on a different note tennis clubs) I have often wondered as to why there was almost never outreach to departing or recently departed members. I would assume, unless there was some very public tiff, that some could be coaxed back. Also, they could learn why people are alienated. Most people won't pay $3800 a year to be disaffected.
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Old 02-18-2024, 05:02 PM
 
6,693 posts, read 5,923,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Given declining membership of synagogues (and on a different note tennis clubs) I have often wondered as to why there was almost never outreach to departing or recently departed members. I would assume, unless there was some very public tiff, that some could be coaxed back. Also, they could learn why people are alienated. Most people won't pay $3800 a year to be disaffected.
Yes it's ridiculous to drive people away so needlessly. All the rabbis had to do was keep their big mouth shut when it comes to controversial topics such as politics, climate change and gender/nonbinary stuff. Or else they could say "some people feel strongly about climate change and there is some disagreement, so we all need to stay broad minded and accepting of diverse viewpoints" and so on.
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Old 02-18-2024, 05:12 PM
 
6,693 posts, read 5,923,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I am with you on all points. We have not resigned, because my wife and I agreed to remain affiliated with a synagogue when we married.

Our synagogue has trended left as well, but they have, at least, not shed their Zionism. To their credit, they fired a Hebrew school teacher who, in her blogging, spelled "Israel" without capitalization, and was otherwise very disrespectful of Israel. On the other hand they recite slavishly every other leftist mantra, including "climate change," abortion and DEI. I must say, in passing, that our Cantor delivered a powerful, pro-choice sermon before Kol Nidre. I was not offended since I am pro-choice, though I can think of better times than Kol Nidre to address Dobbs. I think there is insufficient appreciate of the fact that some Jews may be "closet conservatives." There should be room for discussion. Sadly, there isn't.

The day after Donald Trump was elected President, the synagogue held a "healing" session for those who were upset. When my turn to speak came, I mentioned that our neighbor to the North, Canada had given Stephen Harper, a pro-Israel Conservative a majority and that it was not the end of the world. She responded, "yes it was" and she promptly dissolved into a ball of tears. Now, she seemed to be rather affluent, and not likely to have her life ruined by Trump. I tried to have a rational discussion after and I could not.
Wow just wow!
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