Is my impression of Indianapolis accurate? (Denver: apartment, condo, crimes)

[ischyros]

Originally Posted by MortonR

Along those lines, I'm curious as to what has caused or is causing the decline in the center city. Some years back when the mall was done and a lot of the development took place I was really excited to see this, as I could recall downtown and the surrounding areas from the 60s-70s when no one went there and it was truly dangerous as far as crime.

Now I see a lot of retail vacating the area and loads of businesses and storefronts shuttered. Why? I realize there were some events last year that caused some of this, but much was already taking place before that.

??

RM

I think much of the disappearance of retail downtown, at least around and in Circle Centre, is simply the changing landscape of shopping. It's the same thing happening to malls and retail stores across the country. Stores are closing as people are shifting to more online shopping. I remember Circle Centre used to be filled with stores that couldn't be found anywhere else in Indiana. Those stores closed. Some, like FAO Schwartz and The Warner Bros Studio Store, the company closed all stores. Others just left Circle Centre. And when they left they were replaced with stores that could be found in every mall in Indy. Nordstrom's decision to open a second location at the Fashion Mall caused the downtown store to fail. It almost feels like they wanted that to happen as I remember reading there was only one other city in the country that had 2 Nordstrom stores so close to each other. Indy certainly couldn't support that. I've also heard a lot of talk that Simon overcharges for rent for Circle Centre and that's why they had to replace most of the Nordstrom spot with Indy Star offices. Locals still flock to Mass Ave and Fountain Square, but there's no reason to really go around the Circle Centre area anymore. There's nothing you can get there that you can't get closer to home.

[MortonR]

Thanks to both of you for the information. I wasn't trying to focus specifically on the mall, as I totally understand the reason behind it's demise. I was wondering more about restaurants and bars, nightlife sort of related things.

I would think the hotels would support some of that business. And what about all the development that's taken place along the canal, and around IUPUI? Hasn't that elevated the activity in the area, too?

At least I can still go down and see my name on my brick on the Circle...

RM

[sheerbliss]

Aside from the Whole Foods and the new urgent care center, there's nothing downtown for me. Recreational shopping? I'm not into it. Movies? They've all looked about alike for a long time. Hardware, prescriptions, vitamins, odds and ends? They sell all of that closer to home or online, where I don't have to pay to park. That's the other thing: parking is as expensive as it is, or at least was, in Denver.

Maybe downtown should be reinvented less as a destination and more as an interesting place to live, with lots of variety and different people and serendipity.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by sheerbliss

Aside from the Whole Foods and the new urgent care center, there's nothing downtown for me. Recreational shopping? I'm not into it. Movies? They've all looked about alike for a long time. Hardware, prescriptions, vitamins, odds and ends? They sell all of that closer to home or online, where I don't have to pay to park. That's the other thing: parking is as expensive as it is, or at least was, in Denver.

Maybe downtown should be reinvented less as a destination and more as an interesting place to live, with lots of variety and different people and serendipity.

There are lots of apartments and condos being built in and around downtown, with an occupancy rate in the range of 90-95% or higher. It would be impossible for downtown to have sustainable success without residential. Downtown can still be a destination while also hosting a residential population. We take our kids downtown to ride bikes at White River State Park or along the Cultural Trail all the time when the weather is nice. When my wife and I have date night, pre-Covid, it was often dinner downtown or near downtown and a comedy show at Helium or some other live performance at Phoenix Theater or along Mass Ave.

[sheerbliss]

I'll say this for downtown Indy: they have a real grocery store (Needler's) and a real hardware store next to it. In some "downtowns," you have to go somewhere else to buy a box of nails or a carton of eggs: there's nothing around but twee little shops and designer luxuries.

There was a CVS close to my old office, but rioters burned it down. A former employee there now works at the CVS by my house; from what she tells me, it doesn't sound like there are any plans to rebuild it.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by sheerbliss

I'll say this for downtown Indy: they have a real grocery store (Needler's) and a real hardware store next to it. In some "downtowns," you have to go somewhere else to buy a box of nails or a carton of eggs: there's nothing around but twee little shops and designer luxuries.

There was a CVS close to my old office, but rioters burned it down. A former employee there now works at the CVS by my house; from what she tells me, it doesn't sound like there are any plans to rebuild it.

There were 2 CVS pharmacies downtown, did we really need 2? The one by CityWay is much nicer than the old one was.

[ischyros]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

There were 2 CVS pharmacies downtown, did we really need 2? The one by CityWay is much nicer than the old one was.

Where I live there are 2 CVS on SR 37 just a mile and a half from each other at 131st and at 146th. Not to mention another on 116th close to I-69/SR 37 and another at 116th and Allisonville and then 96th and Allisonville. I guarantee there were a lot more people served by those 2 CVS stores downtown than these out here in Fishers are. CVS seems to love to place their stores very close together for some reason and if such a small area out here in the suburbs can support that many CVS stores, it seems downtown could easily support 2.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by ischyros

Where I live there are 2 CVS on SR 37 just a mile and a half from each other at 131st and at 146th. Not to mention another on 116th close to I-69/SR 37 and another at 116th and Allisonville and then 96th and Allisonville. I guarantee there were a lot more people served by those 2 CVS stores downtown than these out here in Fishers are. CVS seems to love to place their stores very close together for some reason and if such a small area out here in the suburbs can support that many CVS stores, it seems downtown could easily support 2.

There is also a CVS at 16th and Meridian. If you live just outside downtown, there are two on the near eastside and one near Garfield Park.

[MortonR]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

There is also a CVS at 16th and Meridian. If you live just outside downtown, there are two on the near eastside and one near Garfield Park.

16th and Meridian? Wow. How that area has changed.

I had relatives that lived in the Piccadilly from the late 1950s until they passed in the late 1990s. It was starting to gentrify by then, but not totally. I can recall the Hawthorne Room restaurant at 16th and Meridian as well as what I recall as an IHOP on the southwest corner?

When we were kids and bored we would go over to Herron Art Institute and walk through the museum. It was a dark and creepy place back then...

RM

[sheerbliss]

When I visited the Lincoln Park area in Chicago a few years ago, there was a CVS on almost every street corner.

Around here, there's also a CVS at 10th & Arlington.