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I'm writing this post from the heart of Central NY--Turning Stone Casino in Verona. Well, in my poker-addled mind, it's the heart of the region, anyway. Although I've enjoyed the annual World Series of Poker circuit stop at Turning Stone, I couldn't imagine living in CNY, personally. I find the people quite agreeable, but even by Buffalo standards, the area is rather depressing. If it's financially prudent to move back to your hometown, you certainly have to give it some consideration, but California is awfully hard to abandon. As long as you're not broke/in debt, I'd stay out there if I were you
PS I'm curious what 'busy but boring' area you'd be working from if you were to move back
Turning Stone is in the middle of nowhere in the Utica-Rome metro area on Oneida Nation land just off of the NYS Thruway. That is totally different than living in one of the towns mentioned or even in one of the cities in the region, which have a range of neighborhoods like most decent sized American cities.
I dare say even the more relatively(but legitimately) affluent parts of the region like the Fayetteville-Manlius SD, much of the Jamesville-DeWitt SD, parts of the Westhill SD, Skaneateles, New Hartford, Cazenovia and parts of some of the previously mentioned areas/school districts in the region would still housing more affordable for similar areas in CA, with good schools and easy access to the cities and to areas with outdoor amenities. Given that the OP mentioned closer to the Finger Lakes, he is likely talking about communities like Skaneateles, Marcellus(nice, rural, exurban town with a New England like village), etc.
This doesn't even get into the Micron factor, if it even meets half of what is projected.
I'm writing this post from the heart of Central NY--Turning Stone Casino in Verona. Well, in my poker-addled mind, it's the heart of the region, anyway. Although I've enjoyed the annual World Series of Poker circuit stop at Turning Stone, I couldn't imagine living in CNY, personally. I find the people quite agreeable, but even by Buffalo standards, the area is rather depressing. If it's financially prudent to move back to your hometown, you certainly have to give it some consideration, but California is awfully hard to abandon. As long as you're not broke/in debt, I'd stay out there if I were you
PS I'm curious what 'busy but boring' area you'd be working from if you were to move back
Yea, Oneida County where Verona is in has been losing population for the last five census counts with Utica being the main bright spot for the last couple decades. That means it's being heavily offset by the rest of the county losing a lot more people.
This is pretty different from Syracuse and Onondaga County though they're all Central New York. Syracuse posted growth in the last census and Onondaga has gained population including in the time period that the OP has been gone, and it also started with more people so there's generally more to do. Within the city there are multiple higher education institutions that have been able to bring in funding and people that smaller places would otherwise have great difficulty attracting. The area has gotten a lot more diverse and you can see it in the variety of grocery shops and restaurants it has now with many of the restaurants having opened within the last several years as a variety of immigrant communities established themselves enough to open these up. The city's also large enough where neighborhoods can differ quite a bit. I think it matters where in Central New York he'll need to be in. I know Orange County a lot better than I know Central New York, but I got a pretty favorable impression of some parts of Syracuse and there seems to be some optimism there whereas the latter 20th century and early years of this century were apparently quite depressing.
Former born-and-raised Californian here. I don't hate my native state. California is a nice place to live, but like all places it involves trade-offs.
For those killing it -- thriving career, on the high end of the income scale, homeowner, with enough to left over to save and invest -- it makes a ton of sense. This is especially true for those who also like the climate and social scene.
But many are barely scraping by, living paycheck to paycheck, never really getting ahead. Owning a home is pretty much out of reach. It's difficult to enjoy what the area has to offer working long hours just to make ends meet. As someone who grew up in Coastal California and witnessed many people moving to area in search of the California Dream, I will say that's fine for a time and worth a try, but as one gets older you have to know when to throw in the towel. I've seen too many people hanging on to the dream for far too long. Before they know it they're mid-life and haven't really saved for retirement or built up any net worth. That's a really tough place to be later in life.
Even those thriving in CA are reevaluating if the price is worth it. It's just so dang expensive. Unless one is super wealthy, owning a home usually means a very expensive tract home with little walkability. I prefer a four season climate, so CNY is very appealing. Plenty of water, low wildfire risk, lots of rivers and lakes and forest. Many of the smaller cities are very quaint (looking at you, Cooperstown), and the inner-ring neighborhoods of some of the larger cities offer a great mix of urban lifestyle with easy access to a proper downtown while living in a quite tree lined neighborhood. Of course, not everywhere in CNY is a great place to live. The same is true for California. But the nicer areas with good schools are still very affordable compared to Orange County, so why not?
This song was written 85 years ago. It's been going on a long time.
"You want to buy you a home or a farm, that can't deal nobody harm,
Or take your vacation by the mountains or sea.
Don't swap your old cow for a car, you better stay right where you are,
Better take this little tip from me.
'Cause I look through the want ads every day
But the headlines on the papers always say:
If you ain't got the do re mi, boys, you ain't got the do re mi,
Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee.
California is a garden of Eden, a paradise to live in or see;
But believe it or not, you won't find it so hot
If you ain't got the do re mi."
Turning Stone is in the middle of nowhere in the Utica-Rome metro area on Oneida Nation land just off of the NYS Thruway. That is totally different than living in one of the towns mentioned or even in one of the cities in the region, which have a range of neighborhoods like most decent sized American cities.
I dare say even the more relatively(but legitimately) affluent parts of the region like the Fayetteville-Manlius SD, much of the Jamesville-DeWitt SD, parts of the Westhill SD, Skaneateles, New Hartford, Cazenovia and parts of some of the previously mentioned areas/school districts in the region would still housing more affordable for similar areas in CA, with good schools and easy access to the cities and to areas with outdoor amenities. Given that the OP mentioned closer to the Finger Lakes, he is likely talking about communities like Skaneateles, Marcellus(nice, rural, exurban town with a New England like village), etc.
This doesn't even get into the Micron factor, if it even meets half of what is projected.
A lot of this is subjective, but I don't think Syracuse has a single appealing suburb. If there is one, I haven't yet discovered it. Several springs ago, maybe 2016 or so, I drove to 'Cuse on a Sunday morning to attempt to see Cornel West speak at an AME church in the city. An AME church is undoubtedly a strange venue for a Caucasian atheist such as myself to find myself in, but I like Cornel quite a bit, and I also had (loosely organized) plans to meet an old friend there. Alas, I got lost and never located the church. So I parked at the uni and started walking around the city. Absolutely nothing was going on; I had only a patrolling police officer for company. I distinctly remember seeing a car with a California plate parked in the driveway of a stately older home located within a mile of SU and thinking to myself: why would you ever return to this wasteland?
Now, since then, I've grown to like Syracuse/CNY a bit more. But the general impression of death, decline and decay is to me the psychological takeaway I get from 'Cuse (and Rochester, and even from my own hometown of Buffalo, though to a lesser extent in Buffalo's case). Abandonment is intriguing and has a certain kind of allure, but living in a place that has the aura of abandonment ultimately is not particularly healthy, in my opinion. I think some people are more sensitive to 'psychogeography' (to use the verbiage of the radical French philosopher Guy Debord) than others; throughout my life, I've been in the company of plenty of people who are more on the self-absorbed end of the spectrum, and they may well be too caught up in themselves to notice the industrial ruins in their midst. But I've always paid a lot of attention to my surroundings, and it's going to take much, much more effort than is currently occurring in any of the major cities of upstate NY to eradicate the prevailing atmosphere of disinvestment.
A lot of this is subjective, but I don't think Syracuse has a single appealing suburb. If there is one, I haven't yet discovered it. Several springs ago, maybe 2016 or so, I drove to 'Cuse on a Sunday morning to attempt to see Cornel West speak at an AME church in the city. An AME church is undoubtedly a strange venue for a Caucasian atheist such as myself to find myself in, but I like Cornel quite a bit, and I also had (loosely organized) plans to meet an old friend there. Alas, I got lost and never located the church. So I parked at the uni and started walking around the city. Absolutely nothing was going on; I had only a patrolling police officer for company. I distinctly remember seeing a car with a California plate parked in the driveway of a stately older home located within a mile of SU and thinking to myself: why would you ever return to this wasteland?
Now, since then, I've grown to like Syracuse/CNY a bit more. But the general impression of death, decline and decay is to me the psychological takeaway I get from 'Cuse (and Rochester, and even from my own hometown of Buffalo, though to a lesser extent in Buffalo's case). Abandonment is intriguing and has a certain kind of allure, but living in a place that has the aura of abandonment ultimately is not particularly healthy, in my opinion. I think some people are more sensitive to 'psychogeography' (to use the verbiage of the radical French philosopher Guy Debord) than others; throughout my life, I've been in the company of plenty of people who are more on the self-absorbed end of the spectrum, and they may well be too caught up in themselves to notice the industrial ruins in their midst. But I've always paid a lot of attention to my surroundings, and it's going to take much, much more effort than is currently occurring in any of the major cities of upstate NY to eradicate the prevailing atmosphere of disinvestment.
You didn't go to the Fayetteville-Manlius area, in which the school district is the second or third most affluent suburban school district in Upstate NY in terms of median household income, with the adjacent Jamesville-DeWitt SD having quite a few upper middle class areas, including those that are affiliated with the local colleges/universities and hospitals living in both of those communities. Skaneateles is a small town SW of Syracuse known for its multiple million dollar properties and lakeside village.
As for that visit, I believe it was one on a Sunday and near the campus when it was just after Spring semester. So, that likely played a part in the desolate atmosphere.
As mentioned, some parts of the city are better than others, but it does have some solid to nice walkable options like Westcott just east of University Hill(Greater University Hill was recognized by the APA in the past for the mixed use nature of the area: https://www.planning.org/greatplaces...ersityhill.htm), Eastwood, Court-Woodlawn on the North Side, Tipperary Hill on the West Side, Franklin Square just NW of Downtown(with room for more development), a Downtown that has seen an increase in residents; as well as nice old money neighborhoods like Sedgwick: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0621...8192?entry=ttu
and some other areas within city limits. So, it depends on where you go within the city and area. BTW, you were probably looking for People's AME Zion Church on the South Side.
In terms of the OP, the thing that may also be appealing is the lack of serious traffic and in turn, easy access to things in the city or to places like the Finger Lakes, the Thousand Islands, the Adirondacks, Lake Ontario and plenty of nice smaller communities within a couple of hours, if that. So, that may be something to consider as well.
Another thing, if you are a person that like lectures, it is a region with a lot of colleges/universities. So, you may be able to attend lectures like the one you were looking for due to the strong higher education presence between Syracuse University, Cornell University, Ithaca College, Colgate University, Hamilton College in Clinton(a nice, walkable village outside of Utica), Le Moyne College, SUNY's such as Oswego, Cortland, Poly in Marcy outside of Utica, Morrisville and the Upstate Medical University; Utica College and a few community colleges as well. All are within an hour of Syracuse, if that.
There's also something like the Strathmore Speakers series: https://strathmorespeakers.com/ (Strathmore is a in the SW corner of the city)
If you like college sports, Power 5/ACC(Syracuse), Ivy League(Cornell), Patriot League(Colgate) and Northeast Conference(Le Moyne) Division 1 sports are all in the region. This is along with AHL hockey both in Syracuse and Utica, as well as AAA Baseball in Syracuse(NY Mets farm team).
It also has the NY State Fair, plenty of festivals, historical sites, parks; low key places like Sylvan Beach or waterfall areas like Tinker Falls in the Labrador Unique Area, Delphi Falls and Pratt's Falls(among others in the area) and a top 10 shopping center in the country(Destiny USA).
You are also about 4 hours or so from NYC, Toronto, Montreal, Philadelphia and a little bit longer to Boston.
So, while it has its warts and all, you can do much worse.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-26-2024 at 01:09 PM..
I think one of the more appealing things is money/investment and people coming in which bodes well for moving there in terms of business, things to do, and people to meet. That highway removal project is a lot of investment. So is even further cleanup funds earmarked for Lake Onondaga. So is the continued renovation and expansion of the airport. So is the purported large semiconductor fab in the area. So is the plan for speeding up passenger rail service.
I think one of the more appealing things is money/investment and people coming in which bodes well for moving there in terms of business, things to do, and people to meet. That highway removal project is a lot of investment. So is even further cleanup funds earmarked for Lake Onondaga. So is the continued renovation and expansion of the airport. So is the purported large semiconductor fab in the area. So is the plan for speeding up passenger rail service.
Yes, there are a lot of things going on that even many locals aren't aware of and in turn, you may get the feeling that things aren't changing, but steadily they are. So, the area will look different than it does now. You already are seeing people from adjacent states driving through the city and suburbs, scoping it out and I've even had a co-worker tell me about people from said states buying land in more rural counties nearby. So, some people are just ahead of the game in terms of getting in while things are still relatively affordable.
Upstate NY's only hope (and it is a hope that will inevitably come to fruition) is that intra-national migration trends will reverse due to climate change. It is all but certain that they will, but what is less certain is the time frame involved here. If we're talking many decades before domestic migration trends do a 180, then that matters little to those currently living and enduring a place where the prevailing atmosphere is malaise. Trump once famously advised upstate NYers to relocate. It is perhaps the only thing he's said since 2015 with which I haven't disagreed
My friend once told me a story of a co-worker of his (in the profoundly uninspiring industry of insurance sales) one day packed up her belongings on a whim and moved from Buffalo to the much more dynamic Seattle metro area. Her parting words: 'Buffalo is so stale'. 'Buffalo' could've been replaced with 'Upstate NY' and the pronouncement would've been no less accurate
Now, all this being said, I likely will always remain here due to the presence of family and friends. But I operate under no illusions about the QOL on offer
You didn't go to the Fayetteville-Manlius area, in which the school district is the second or third most affluent suburban school district in Upstate NY in terms of median household income, with the adjacent Jamesville-DeWitt SD having quite a few upper middle class areas, including those that are affiliated with the local colleges/universities and hospitals living in both of those communities. Skaneateles is a small town SW of Syracuse known for its multiple million dollar properties and lakeside village.
As for that visit, I believe it was one on a Sunday and near the campus when it was just after Spring semester. So, that likely played a part in the desolate atmosphere.
As mentioned, some parts of the city are better than others, but it does have some solid to nice walkable options like Westcott just east of University Hill(Greater University Hill was recognized by the APA in the past for the mixed use nature of the area: https://www.planning.org/greatplaces...ersityhill.htm), Eastwood, Court-Woodlawn on the North Side, Tipperary Hill on the West Side, Franklin Square just NW of Downtown(with room for more development), a Downtown that has seen an increase in residents; as well as nice old money neighborhoods like Sedgwick: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0621...8192?entry=ttu
and some other areas within city limits. So, it depends on where you go within the city and area. BTW, you were probably looking for People's AME Zion Church on the South Side.
In terms of the OP, the thing that may also be appealing is the lack of serious traffic and in turn, easy access to things in the city or to places like the Finger Lakes, the Thousand Islands, the Adirondacks, Lake Ontario and plenty of nice smaller communities within a couple of hours, if that. So, that may be something to consider as well.
Another thing, if you are a person that like lectures, it is a region with a lot of colleges/universities. So, you may be able to attend lectures like the one you were looking for due to the strong higher education presence between Syracuse University, Cornell University, Ithaca College, Colgate University, Hamilton College in Clinton(a nice, walkable village outside of Utica), Le Moyne College, SUNY's such as Oswego, Cortland, Poly in Marcy outside of Utica, Morrisville and the Upstate Medical University; Utica College and a few community colleges as well. All are within an hour of Syracuse, if that.
There's also something like the Strathmore Speakers series: https://strathmorespeakers.com/ (Strathmore is a in the SW corner of the city)
If you like college sports, Power 5/ACC(Syracuse), Ivy League(Cornell), Patriot League(Colgate) and Northeast Conference(Le Moyne) Division 1 sports are all in the region. This is along with AHL hockey both in Syracuse and Utica, as well as AAA Baseball in Syracuse(NY Mets farm team).
It also has the NY State Fair, plenty of festivals, historical sites, parks; low key places like Sylvan Beach or waterfall areas like Tinker Falls in the Labrador Unique Area, Delphi Falls and Pratt's Falls(among others in the area) and a top 10 shopping center in the country(Destiny USA).
You are also about 4 hours or so from NYC, Toronto, Montreal, Philadelphia and a little bit longer to Boston.
So, while it has its warts and all, you can do much worse.
When I was a kid, age 11-12 or so, I spent a couple years on the New York West Olympic Development Program soccer team. The cutoff between New York West and New York East was probably around Utica. Our outdoor practices were held in the tiny town of Cohocton, which is a possibly zero-stoplight town off the 390 south of Geneseo. For indoor practices, however, we rotated among a few venues: the New York Chiropractic College somewhere kinda near Geneva; Hobart and William Smith, which was actually in Geneva; and, finally, an indoor soccer facility in the Syracuse suburb of Baldwinsville. My dad and I would often grab lunch or dinner on these trips, so I saw my fair share of metro 'Cuse as a kid. I was always happy to return home
There may be money in the areas that you mention, but what's lacking is culture.
The visit circa 2016 was in April, so the spring semester was still in session. The college kids must've all been staring at their screens in their dorms/residences
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