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A few years ago I posted a buying/building experience for our house that lasted about 1.5 years and seemed many people found very helpful.
So, with that being said, I am going to provide my experience in buying solar and battery walls as it happens. Please, if you think solar is dumb or too expensive or a waste of time, this is not the post for you. I have already decided to get them, I researched them for nearly a year. It is something I am doing.
First, my research. I spent many hours googling all the websites, unfortunately, most of the websites claim to
offer a free quote, but require personal info after asking what seems innocent data. I did find a couple.
Week 1
Research
Solar Websites
One was energy sage. It requires your address but that is so it can scan for roof and what sun is reported in that area. I have attached a snapshot of what it gave me.
The government also has a decent website, but as usual, it's confusing. It is located here: https://pvwatts.nrel.gov.
HOA Restrictions
If you are thinking of doing panels, please take some time to look at least at these two sites. The next thing I would suggest is that you read up on your HOA restrictions. My HOA is about as strict as it can possibly get stating you can't place panels on more than 20% of your roof, which means you would never be able to make enough to break even. They also want them hidden from view if at all possible, even requesting you put them on the worst production sides of the roof.
There are some things that can help you in this fight. Specifically a Texas House Bill (362) that technically prohibits HOA's from restricting solar unless it is a harm or hanging over your roof etc.
Electric Company
You need to find out if your electric company really supports solar. I found, for instance, Oncor has a great program that will give you $500 towards your electric bill and pay you back with rollover credits for what solar you return. I saw one persons bill was $-326 for the year. Unfortunately, I have FEC, a co-op, they do buy back electricity at a low rate, but they are very strict and its half the price of what you pay. I will tell you how that goes in a year, if these end up getting installed!
Battery Walls
While you can make quite a bit back on a solar investment over a long period, batteries cost and the only recoup you really get is that they can, if purchased correctly, cover all night usage and inclement weather, but they won't do that if you don't make enough solar to charge them. They are also very expensive. Unless your home is under 1700 sqft you need to Tesla Walls and while it says their cost is $6,000 each, the installation cost makes them almost double, yes double. A lot of safety requirements must be put in place so you don't electrocute someone working on a line that they presume down, but you are supplying power to.
Solar Panels
There are hundreds and everyone has their favorite and tries to convince you to use those. One big misnomer is that Polycrystalline is better than Monocrystalline. I mean, it is in medicine! Mono is better, period, Poly is crushed up rebuilt Mono. Mono panels can max out around 22.7% efficiency (this is good) where Poly max at 18.3%ish some claiming 19%. I decided to go with the Panasonic 330watt that sits at 21% efficiency with a loss of 0.3% per year (of 100% not 21%) .3 is about the best. Some poly degrade at almost 1% per year meaning after 25 years they are running at 75% of that 19%. You also want micro-inverters. This means that each panel converts to power versus one inverter. The issue is, if one panel breaks/dies etc, you lose an entire row of panels instead of just one. Does not make sense to do anything other than the individual inverters.
Conclusion
This is about where I am. Purchasing 2 Tesla Power Walls and enough solar for about 65% of my overall usage with plans on further solar expansion in a few years. The cost for this is around $45,000 with $20,000 of it being the 2 power walls. This means, to charge the walls will actually take some time but they will make it so I never have a power outage and eventually not needing the grid at all "technically".
I am getting 2 Powerwall batteries, not because I love Tesla, I don't even drive an eco car. I like muscle! I have a daughter that requires medical devices that I want powered all the time.
Note, most electric companies will still charge you a fee to have a "connection" to electricity and some (mine included) charge an extra $10-15/mo to have solar and be "credited" back. You can earn enough credits to have that cancelled out, but it takes a lot of Solar Panels.
I had several companies tell me 17, 19, 21 and 23 panels was enough. I started doing the math and that is untrue for my family of 6 3,800 sqft home with an avery bill of $160/month.
The current company I have chosen is Good Faith Energy, they have an A+ rating, 317+ reviews all 5 star and been in business for 6 years. They are located locally (Richardson) not some contractor that rents people.
They said for 100% coverage on 2500kwh avg I need 48 panels. Notice how far off everyone else was. Everyone else is lying, so why are they lying? Well, that's because if they sell you a system that makes it so you may only pay 5 months out of the year the bill sounds great ($140-200/month for 25 years in some cases) you are more likely to say yes and they try to tell you with monitoring you can end up with a $0 bill on this and even moreso credit.
What I quickly realized in my own reseach of solar panels, this is not the case. You need to generate at least 92% of your usage to start crediting you back. If I did all 48 panels and 2 walls it would probably be in the neighborhood of around $65,000 for the entire system, just for perspective. I am doing what I can afford and will add when I can.
We are getting a grid tie-in, rooftop solar system. At this point, it’s looking like we’re going to purchase Grape panels, and DH will install them himself. Our utility will actually send out an inspector to verify that they’re installed properly. As of this post, it’s unclear if there’s a fee and, if so, how kick it is. DH took measurements just last weekend. We have enough room for 54 panels on a 40 degree pitch roof with no obstructions. We will be buying in February and hope to get everything installed and operational by the end of April.
Would using batteries with a time of use plan make more sense? Skip the panels and charge the batteries during low cost kWh and use them during the high cost period. I've read TOU kWh is around $0.04.
family of 6 3,800 sqft home with an avery bill of $160/month.
They said for 100% coverage on 2500kwh avg I need 48 panels.
You got to be kidding me? You only pay around $160 per month in electricity cost on 2,500 kWh per month?
We used about 1,500 kWh per month on average but paid $385 per month on average. Got to love California energy rates.
I also used the Energysage website for all my panel researching.
We had LG370Q1C panels installed. Pretty similar to your Panasonic panels in terms of efficiency and degradation. The LG's are rated to only decline to 90.8% of original production by year 25. Another reason besides performance that I chose these particular LG panels was that I liked that they had fewer cells which their by made the cells look larger. To me the panels look better when they have larger cells and therefore fewer. Just personal preference.
LG and Panasonic seem to have the best panels and the best prices IMO. Sunpower might actually have the best panels but I couldn't justify their mark up in price. Only real benefit was that they were rated to to like 93% of original production after 25 years. But at a cost of like $7K-10K more for the panels it didn't make sense to pay the premium.
Would using batteries with a time of use plan make more sense? Skip the panels and charge the batteries during low cost kWh and use them during the high cost period. I've read TOU kWh is around $0.04.
Yes, many people do this. The issue is, batteries are the most expensive and solar actually has a return of investment (ROI). The ROI for solar is about 8 years.
If you DIY batteries correctly it can save you some, but it isn't simple. I researched this for a while and it costs about $4,000 per Tesla equivalent, has no warranty and took the guy I followed (Canispater) months to finish.
Tesla walls can actually be set to use them during peak cost hours and recharge them during cheapest hours.
But most houses (1700 SQFT+) require 2 battery walls (about $20k installed) and 4000+ sqft is 3 battery walls ($27ish k). One wall is $12k installed. The initial cost of the equipment needed is around $4k. hence cheaper as you add them.
Took about 3 weeks to get Electric company approval and city permits. HOA took a little longer. All in was about 6-7 weeks. I went ahead and got approval (from HOA) for 36 panels even though I am only installing 24 at this time, because they will be coming and in case they denied I could drop down to 24. Just fyi my HOA required signatures from neighbors to sign a document that says they approve or deny the install with nasty remarks like "this may ruin your enjoyment of your own home" and "may lower the value of your home" It was incredibly negative and was written 12 years ago.
Installers came out, put panels on in about 8 hours. They replaced several vents (bathroom etc) with flat vents that will release now under panels. Used special flashing mounts with sealer to keep roof sealed. They made 2 holes about 1 inch for wires and it has a special conduit box over with all wiring, including a very thick grounding wire that goes into a grounding rod. Adding some photos of install.
They are scheduling a return visit for electrical and battery walls. The above was done yesterday.
What is the deal with the builders? Every newer development has the same ugly communist no design flair to it...except for the roofs...where they have gone overboard! And you can pass mustard to your neighbor through windows!
Good luck on the panels hope they live up to your expectations.
What is the deal with the builders? Every newer development has the same ugly communist no design flair to it...except for the roofs...where they have gone overboard! And you can pass mustard to your neighbor through windows!
Good luck on the panels hope they live up to your expectations.
LOL... If you are building in the city, builders are maximizing the size of the house on the lot, and these giant boxes are how you squeeze in the biggest home in Sq footage, while maintaining the mandatory basketball / soccer gym required for the kitchen, dining, living room, open living area space that consumers are demanding.
LOL... If you are building in the city, builders are maximizing the size of the house on the lot, and these giant boxes are how you squeeze in the biggest home in Sq footage, while maintaining the mandatory basketball / soccer gym required for the kitchen, dining, living room, open living area space that consumers are demanding.
You'd think they would at least try to make the homes look a LITTLE interesting though. Ugh, how hideous.
I've had my 28 panels for 3 1/2 years. Each panel has its own microinverter for most efficient output. Batteries are not cost effective at this point but we have hopes they will be in the near future. We had the money to invest and purchased out right. With Fed and St rebates total cost came to about $13K. I'm sure it would be cheaper if installed today and if you have the time I believe you can save even more by just doing everything yourself, maybe hiring installers if necessary. NYS has the highest elec. rates in the country so payback period will only be 5 years. Electric bill fluctuates between $11-$14/ month to pay for grid hook up. Usually at the end of the year our solar bank goes down to 0 and we have to pay a little more. Its our 3rd year and still going strong, this is our highest year of production yet. Don't know if summer was cooler or whole year on average was sunnier but we have nearly 1000 KW balance in our solar bank with one month to go to annual reconciliation when elec co will send a check for unused solar credits at the wholesale rate so it's not that much money. Best to size up system just for what you need so you don't make elec. for local elec. co. at a discounted rate. The solar roof will slightly increase property tax ( extra 300 out of $14K annual tax bill) but town deferrs that tax increase for 15 years. Even so I would rather pay $300 once a year instead of $300 per month in elec charges like my neighbor does for the same size house.
One of the best investments we've ever made and have peace of mind that you're reducing your energy footprint and not wasting coal or whatever type of energy they're using at local power plant. Most of your elec payment goes to pay for overinflated salaries for the elec. co. workers and executives. There are two private plants of Long Island and their residents pay significantly less. If I lived in one of those towns it may not pay to use solar.
Our biggest elec usage is for AC during the summer and that's also when solar panels produce the most so we have a nice match up of usage and generation during the year. So nice to see your meter running backwards during the summer months even though house is ice cold. If we move to another house we would install solar panels as well as long as conditions are right with south facing roof like in our current house. Best payoff is with purchase, not a lease. Leases contain many unnecessary fees, interest and price escalations and many solar companies try to steal your fed and st rebates. Maintenance is a joke because there is NO maintenance so don't let anyone charge you extra for it.
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