COS is no longer the sprawly metro it once was (Denver: rent, mortgages)

[BabyBoomers2]

The word "sprawl" seems to be a major word all along the Front Range. Only go to COS once a year, but anytime we have, it seemed like it was/is getting bigger and bigger.

[TCHP]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

TCHP, glad to hear about apartments in the downtown area. I used to wish developers would build 10-20 mid-rise apartment/condo towers of 15-25 stories each to populate the downtown with enough residents to create the critical mass needed to attract the businesses for a walkable, in-city lifestyle.
(snip)

We aren't quite that well developed yet. One existing 12 story tower was refurbished extensively and is selling as condos. They are a huge improvement over the early '60s era they were previously. There are a dozen different projects that are either complete or in process that are around 4-6 stories. There also is a tiny house village under development. Not sure if this will be a case of bring your own house or renting ones already in place, but in-fill is happening downtown.

Front Range Transit is still pushing for light rail service from Pueblo to Fort Collins. There is a study under way and there are four prospective sites in downtown that are being evaluated for feasibility of becoming stations from the existing former D&RG depot all the way down to the rail overpass on south Nevada. With the accelerated shut down of Drake, this area has become a leading contender for this effort.

Migration from east-central areas continues and the Wasson and Mitchell high school areas continue to struggle with swaths of vacant commercial space.

But, sprawl is still alive and well as development along Markscheffel Rd is going gang-busters. I'm betting it is another 5-7 years before it becomes the new Powers corridor. Construction from Constitution to Woodmen along Marksheffel is unabated.

[Phil P]

Colorado Springs may seem sprawly, but you have to compare it to it's other growing peers. For comparison, look at places like Huntsville AL or Greeneville SC (which has been referred to as the COS of the southeast worth a visit btw if you're in that part of the country). What you see a lot in the southeast is new developments that will pop up in between farmland and steam bottoms with no consistent infill. It's hard to tell from the ground level, but look at Winder Georgia on Google Maps, you can see what I'm talking about: housing development, farm, field, forest, spackled all about. At some point Atlanta and Athens will merge into a megablob.

Eastern Colorado just does not lend it self to that type of development. Yes it's flat, but it's arguably some of the least desirable land in the US, at least if you took the mountain view away. It's even more prominent in COS vs Denver because the land east of denver is more farmable, it's higher and drier east of COS. Here as well, look on google maps at the difference between east of COS and east of Denver. The metro is in a bowl, and once you get up on that ridge it gets more windy, hail prone, tornado prone, drier etc. Not to mention you're farther from everything. There's nothing east that anyone drives to. They are throwing up houses out east, but they are small lots and tightly packed in, less sprawly than the old school development out there with large lots.

In Atlanta for comparison, the land was pretty much equally good geographically speaking from city center to every direction out. All good piedmont. Hence why it's much more sprawl prone. For weekends, there was no funnel, people scattered every direction for outdoor activity.

Downtown is getting a little bit of that urban village feel that you're talking about Mike. I don't think we'll ever have mass transit and such, but the saving grace is that it is a pretty small area so it's a division that's pretty walkable from one end to the other.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Phil P

... What you see a lot in the southeast is new developments that will pop up in between farmland and steam bottoms with no consistent infill. It's hard to tell from the ground level, but look at Winder Georgia on Google Maps, you can see what I'm talking about: housing development, farm, field, forest, spackled all about. At some point Atlanta and Athens will merge into a megablob. ...

That image contrasts with what I saw in my trips to W. Germany in the 1980s when it was a nation of 50M people living in a country the size of Oregon. Talk about in-fill and density! It seems every acre was tightly zoned. On one side of a street was a walkable city or town and on the other side the farm fields began, very little of the hodge-podge you describe in AL or SC, which is typical of so many areas. Truly regional or state-wide zoning and planning seems to be a rarity here with our attitude that landowners have the "freedom" to do what they want with their land, no matter how poorly it fits into any larger picture.

[wilberry]

where is Winder Georgia ?

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

That image contrasts with what I saw in my trips to W. Germany in the 1980s when it was a nation of 50M people living in a country the size of Oregon. Talk about in-fill and density! It seems every acre was tightly zoned. On one side of a street was a walkable city or town and on the other side the farm fields began, very little of the hodge-podge you describe in AL or SC, which is typical of so many areas. Truly regional or state-wide zoning and planning seems to be a rarity here with our attitude that landowners have the "freedom" to do what they want with their land, no matter how poorly it fits into any larger picture.

It is an interesting contrast. West Germany may be a little more dense than ideal, but it shows how inefficient the southeast is. That area is caught in the trap of being developed rurally but not urbanly, so there's these personal farms and private land holdings everywhere, slicing up continuous wild or public land areas without a whole lot of cool urban structure. The small towns are starting to get cool town centers now, but there's not much historical bones to work with.

That was one of the main reasons I knew I didn't want to settle in the SE US was that land use pattern. You didn't get good wild or urban structure. Missouri and Arkansas are better than the SE IMO, despite having less sexy topography and climate, they have more intact wild spaces and less rural sprawl, with cities too where needed.

I don't think CO or the mountain west will ever sprawl like that because of water and broadband needs going forward, and the huge swath of already protected public land.

Originally Posted by wilberry

where is Winder Georgia ?

It's an exurb east of Atlanta that's becoming a suburb. It's almost continuous development from Atlanta to there, about 50 some miles, which is the same distance as monument to Denver, where there's definitely not continuous development.

[wilberry]

They are building a Tiny Home neighborhood in COS ? does any one know the address I would like to see it.

[otowi]

Originally Posted by wilberry

They are building a Tiny Home neighborhood in COS ? does any one know the address I would like to see it.

There are multiple tiny home rental complexes. One I've seen is on Chelton east of Academy, if I recall....

[StarrySkiesAbove]

Originally Posted by wilberry

They are building a Tiny Home neighborhood in COS ? does any one know the address I would like to see it.

It’s downtown near the soccer stadium on South Sierra Madre St. It is a very cute community, I drove by a couple weeks ago.

[wilberry]

Originally Posted by StarrySkiesAbove

It’s downtown near the soccer stadium on South Sierra Madre St. It is a very cute community, I drove by a couple of weeks ago.

now I know where this is, it is a place for at-risk young adults. There were two houses house there just a a couple of years ago. one was built in was built in 1890.