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Nah.. I just think it is a dubious claim to think that the Big 12 south was "perennially the best division in college football" from 99 to 2011. I don't think they were any stronger than the SEC East or SEC West.
That's the point, for most of the Big 12 South's history it's just been between OU and Texas. To me that is not a competitive division if you only have two teams really being a force and the other teams not really being in it. A&M hasn't had a run since 1998. It's only been in fairly recent years that you've had other teams really starting to compete. So the idea that the Big 12 South has been some kind of football powerhouse since 1998 [which is what you claimed] just doesn't match up with the record book.
Just about every conference has at least two good teams that play at a high level, so having OU/Texas being dominant doesn't really make the Big 12 South anything special. I just think people forget about everything prior to the last few years and forget that OSU and Tech have not always been big players in the conference and most of the time the division was decided in early October.
No you missed the point completely, unfortunately. The flawed expression of the written medium, perhaps?
My claim is that it was not solely OU and Tejas, although they're obviously the top-notch programs....it was essentially 3 other teams along with the Sooners/Horns that could beat the majority of football teams (not necessarily the best couple of teams in each conference, mind you) in other conferences.
While OU and Tejas have certainly dominated, with the exception of Baylor, many of the Tech/OSU/A&M games have been far from easy wins for OU/Texas. Heck, I think Tech is playing OU almost at .500 since the inception of the BCS. That's pretty much unheard of with any other team against the Sooners with the exception of the long and bitter rivalry between the Sooners and Horns.
It was almost a reality a few seasons ago when Nebraska and Colorado jumped ship and it looked like the Big 12 was going to totally implode. Slive came after the Sooners hard, but Boren/Oklahoma said no dice if it can bring Oklahoma State too. At that time, the SEC did not want OK State.....I'm guessing Slive&Co. regret that now.
I would love to see the Oklahoma/Texas teams play the SEC on a consistent basis in the out of conference schedule every year. Having the Sooners and Horns play y'all on a consistent basis might knock ya down a peg and bring you back to reality.
Yeah, I'd like to see more SEC/Big 12 match-ups, too. My guess is that they'd be split in most years. This year probably would have gone to the SEC, but in future years, it might go the other way. I also think that schedules influence recruiting and style of play a lot. If the two conferences were to have elite teams play each other the way that Florida and Florida St. and Miami have, it might change the way teams approach the season. I'd expect that inter-conference play would probably force the SEC to play better offense, and it would make the Big 12 teams better defensively.
Nah.. I just think it is a dubious claim to think that the Big 12 south was "perennially the best division in college football" from 99 to 2011. I don't think they were any stronger than the SEC East or SEC West.
I'll have to disagree with you. I would take the top 5 of the Big 12 South (OU/Texas, OK-State, Tech, A&M) in a Round-robin tourney against any combination the SEC West's Best = Bama, LSU, Auburn, Arkansas, Miss St. or the SEC East's = FL, TN, SC, GA, Vandy/Kentucky???
Is it not dubious to claim that the SEC is always, or has been,the best conference from top to bottom when it is a relatively recent phenomenon? This may not be your contention but it seems to be the view of the vast majority of fans of SEC teams that I know.
It may be hard for the SEC homers to stomach, but us folks over here in the South-Central are much more concerned about our brand of football and our own tradition, which speaks for itself over several generations/decades....certainly not just in the BCS era as you and E-Cuyler seemed to misread.
The pendulum will swing back the other way soon enough. Programs like Michigan, USC, Nebraska, Florida St., Texas, Ohio State, (even Miami *shudder*), et al. will not stay down in the long haul. The tradition in these programs is too strong to stay down forever.
Yeah, I'd like to see more SEC/Big 12 match-ups, too. My guess is that they'd be split in most years. This year probably would have gone to the SEC, but in future years, it might go the other way. I also think that schedules influence recruiting and style of play a lot. If the two conferences were to have elite teams play each other the way that Florida and Florida St. and Miami have, it might change the way teams approach the season. I'd expect that inter-conference play would probably force the SEC to play better offense, and it would make the Big 12 teams better defensively.
Thank God. A balanced SEC fan. This is exactly what would happen. I have never said the Big 12 South would dominate the SEC West or East, it would simply be competitive and the deficiencies in both styles of play would probably peter out as the programs became more familiar with one another.
Colorado couldn't handle the Mountain West these days. I see they are having a tough time in their new conference.
Like I said, I see LSU winning it this year and y'all better watch out for Arkansas next season. I guess you could say the trend is sort of moving towards Oklahoma.
Oh, btw... congrats to OK State! What a classless act by Stanford on that last play. Why won't they let us see it?
Thank God. A balanced SEC fan. This is exactly what would happen. I have never said the Big 12 South would dominate the SEC West or East, it would simply be competitive and the deficiencies in both styles of play would probably peter out as the programs became more familiar with one another.
Thanks for that, and back at ya. A balanced Big 12'er. Good to see.
Yeah, I think the other positive selling point of regular inter-conference play is that one loss doesn't necessarily destroy a team's chances. We saw that this year. For instance, Oregon was still very much in consideration despite its one loss to LSU in week 1. It was only when it lost to USC that it was finally out of the picture, but it was still mentioned. Honestly, I think that if Oregon had thrashed USC like it should have, they might have gotten another shot over Alabama. There would be less outcry over a non-conference rematch, and also, Oregon would have gotten the respect of being a conference champion, which is understandably one of the gripes that people have with Alabama getting the nod.
But the point here is, Big 12 vs. SEC would actually be good for both conferences. A one-loss team or even a two-loss team might still make it over the likes of teams that go the cupcake route in terms of scheduling. And if a team were to survive undefeated having beaten the best teams in both conferences, they'd intimidate whoever they face in the BCS title game.
Thanks for that, and back at ya. A balanced Big 12'er. Good to see.
Yeah, I think the other positive selling point of regular inter-conference play is that one loss doesn't necessarily destroy a team's chances. We saw that this year. For instance, Oregon was still very much in consideration despite its one loss to LSU in week 1. It was only when it lost to USC that it was finally out of the picture, but it was still mentioned. Honestly, I think that if Oregon had thrashed USC like it should have, they might have gotten another shot over Alabama. There would be less outcry over a non-conference rematch, and also, Oregon would have gotten the respect of being a conference champion, which is understandably one of the gripes that people have with Alabama getting the nod.
But the point here is, Big 12 vs. SEC would actually be good for both conferences. A one-loss team or even a two-loss team might still make it over the likes of teams that go the cupcake route in terms of scheduling.
Although I don't like it one bit, it is very difficult to argue that LSU/Alabama should not be playing one another again from the sheer fact that they are, or at least they have showed thus far, they are best prepared teams week in and week out.
I think the BCS is a farce until all conferences get a conference championship (I absolutely cannot stand that the Big 12 does not have a conf. championship now because of conference expansion). You don't win the conference championship you can't go to the dance (and yes, the Sooners should not have played USC over Auburn because they lost in the Big 12 Championship. I would have much rather watched Auburn get rolled by USC than my Sooners).
There are some major issues that the BCS needs to shore up....hopefully we'll get closer to a balanced system as the conferences expand and solidify more homogeneity across the board in the regular season, and thereby allow the the best teams from each conference to meet after conference championships.
Yeah, but how many times do any of those teams play an SEC West opponent?
OU swept their last home and home with 'Bama in '03 and '04.
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), et al. will not stay down in the long haul. The tradition in these programs is too strong to stay down forever.
