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That depends. Was Bob's house blue or not? Is the supporter referring to the same house? Did other competitors come along and make their own houses of different colors to the point that it became necessary to refer to Bob's house as "the blue one"?
Was Christ's church "catholic" or not?
Bob's house was blue. His supporters started calling it the "blue house" after Bob died. There may have been other houses that existed.
But you didn't answer the question: Was Bob the founder of the Blue house?
Quote:
Originally Posted by archmagus
How do you take positions on anything then?
Do you believe in the Real Presence in the eucharist? I am not sure what non-denominational means on actually important issues...
Yes, I do. But I don't say "My stance on this is this because this denomination says this". I take a position on something regardless of what any denomination of branch of Christianity says. My opinion on things are not influenced by religious teachings. Admittingly, and most people will deny this, there may be times where my opinions can be subconsciously influenced by something I may have heard or read outside of the bible. I read the bible and base my opinion on what I read.
Then we have different opinions on what constitutes a founder.
What defines a founder for you?
Bob didn't call the house the "Blue house". His supporters did. So the plaque on the front of the house would say "This house was founded by Bob 50 years ago and was officially called the "Blue house" by his supporters who have continued his legacy." See the difference? The house itself is associated with Bob but the name is associated with his supporters.
Scripture and the Church Fathers presuppose One Church; Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
Your conception about what the Church is and isn't is utterly foreign to the overwhelming testimony of historical Christianity.
Christians absolutely do need to unite, and the way to do this is to submit to the authority of the One Church founded by Christ. This is what I did. I put my money where my mouth is. What's stopping you?
Catholics and Orthodox Christians are pre-denominational.
Catholics and Orthodox Christians are pre-denominational.
Hmmmm….I think it depends on how the word Denomination is used and what it’s referring to
Denomination is a descriptive term about the naming pertaining to something
In religion it is not just the Protestant churches that are named/called/divided/separated into a type
It’s true that the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) predated the Reformation and denominational is the English term to describe the denominational structure of the Protestant reformation into their various types of religious organisations and systems
A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name and tradition, among other activities. The term refers to the various Christian denominations (for example, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, and the many varieties of Protestantism). It is also used to describe the five major branches of Judaism (Karaite Judaism, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist). Within Islam, it can refer to the branches or sects (such as Sunni and Shia),[1][2] as well as their various subdivisions, such as sub-sects,[3] schools of jurisprudence,[4] schools of theology[5] and religious movements.[6][7]
The world's largest religious denomination is Sunni Islam.[8][9][10][11]
Christianity
A Christian denomination is a generic term for a distinct religious body identified by traits such as a common name, structure, leadership and doctrine. Individual bodies, however, may use alternative terms to describe themselves, such as church or fellowship. Divisions between one group and another are defined by doctrine and church authority; issues such as the biblical interpretation, the authority of apostolic succession, eschatology, and papal primacy often separate one denomination from another. Groups of denominations often sharing broadly similar beliefs, practices and historical ties are known as branches of Christianity.
Scripture and the Church Fathers presuppose One Church; Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
Your conception about what the Church is and isn't is utterly foreign to the overwhelming testimony of historical Christianity.
Christians absolutely do need to unite, and the way to do this is to submit to the authority of the One Church founded by Christ. This is what I did. I put my money where my mouth is. What's stopping you?
The Catholic Church has no "authority." Its "precepts and doctrines of men" are inconsistent with, contradictory to, and represent the antithesis of the Holy Spirit of God as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross (how He wanted us to remember Him). That is why the Paraclete has primacy as Pope Francis has said.
Hmmmm….I think it depends on how the word Denomination is used and what it’s referring to
Denomination is a descriptive term about the naming pertaining to something
In religion it is not just the Protestant churches that are named/called/divided/separated into a type
It’s true that the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) predated the Reformation and denominational is the English term to describe the denominational structure of the Protestant reformation into their various types of religious organisations and systems
A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name and tradition, among other activities. The term refers to the various Christian denominations (for example, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, and the many varieties of Protestantism). It is also used to describe the five major branches of Judaism (Karaite Judaism, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist). Within Islam, it can refer to the branches or sects (such as Sunni and Shia),[1][2] as well as their various subdivisions, such as sub-sects,[3] schools of jurisprudence,[4] schools of theology[5] and religious movements.[6][7]
The world's largest religious denomination is Sunni Islam.[8][9][10][11]
Christianity
A Christian denomination is a generic term for a distinct religious body identified by traits such as a common name, structure, leadership and doctrine. Individual bodies, however, may use alternative terms to describe themselves, such as church or fellowship. Divisions between one group and another are defined by doctrine and church authority; issues such as the biblical interpretation, the authority of apostolic succession, eschatology, and papal primacy often separate one denomination from another. Groups of denominations often sharing broadly similar beliefs, practices and historical ties are known as branches of Christianity.
Just because other groups choose to split off from the Universal Church to form side branches doesn't suddenly make the main trunks of the tree of Christianity and its followers "Denominations." We remain as we say we are, predemoniational.
Others will always try to define a group, put their own words and descriptive labels on it. It is not how we see ourselves. I accept I have no personal ability to police the terminology of others, nor dispute that to a outsider calling everything a "denomination" is easier, even if it is a superficial understanding of the history of Christianity.
Then we have different opinions on what constitutes a founder.
What defines a founder for you?
The definition from dictionary.com will do: a person who founds or establishes something, as a company or institution
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
Bob didn't call the house the "Blue house". His supporters did. So the plaque on the front of the house would say "This house was founded by Bob 50 years ago and was officially called the "Blue house" by his supporters who have continued his legacy." See the difference? The house itself is associated with Bob but the name is associated with his supporters.
Call it whatever you want. It's the same institution with the same unbroken line of leadership.
Catholics and Orthodox Christians are pre-denominational.
Agreed.
"Denominations" are called as such (albeit not necessarily an accurate descriptor) because they are subgroups distinct from the original.
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