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Feelings and emotions are fickle and unreliable indicators.
That's certainly what I was taught and believed. I wasn't seeking feelings as such, but a sense of actual communion, protection and refuge. the Bible is pretty specific about what Christians can expect from god. Whether you take the triumphalist approach ("victorious over sin", "answered prayer", etc) or the rather more mystical approach that allows for dark nights of the soul ("joy in the midst of sorrow, peace in the midst of pain", as one hymn has it), I did not really have that experience of god. It was like waiting for Godot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
Maybe the OP could be more specific in what she means by defining Jesus as "friend"; but friendship at its core is not based in emotion/feeling, but rather in a type of union for the purpose of progress toward a common goal or shared interest, with the necessary involvement of mutual self-sacrifice. I believe friendship also necessitates a certain equality between the partners, which we do indeed have with Jesus due to His humanity.
This is what I think of when I think of Jesus as "friend".
Intellectually, sure. But even an emotionless "union" does ultimately produce MUTUAL benefit. God is pleased, believer is clued in / guided / protected / spiritually nurtured or otherwise blessed. If it is just doggedly living your life like everyone else, then eventually you have to wonder what the point is. If you can never please god or god can never act on your behalf, then you are no different from anyone with any random (dis)belief about spiritual matters.
One way to experience Him is seeing Him in the scriptures. Luke 24:27.........
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He (Jesus) explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.........
The more you look for Him in the OT, the more you will see Him. Now of course He is not here with us physically, but in Heaven. However, for everyone who is born into His body, we become one with Him. So when we gather together with those who keep the faith, Jesus is there in our midst. We are the body of Christ. This is why Jesus says if we've care for the least of the brethren, we've done it to Him.
And lastly for those who have received the Spirit, we have another comforter. He is our Teacher, and He leads us from the inside. He fulfills the role Jesus did in taking care of the disciples while He was on the earth. So ultimately this relationship happens on a deeper level than the earthly relationships we understand.
Intellectually, sure. But even an emotionless "union" does ultimately produce MUTUAL benefit. God is pleased, believer is clued in / guided / protected / spiritually nurtured or otherwise blessed. If it is just doggedly living your life like everyone else, then eventually you have to wonder what the point is. If you can never please god or god can never act on your behalf, then you are no different from anyone with any random (dis)belief about spiritual matters.
Agreed. If one's belief system does not produce results in this life (whatever those intended results may be), one has to wonder what the point is; especially when there is personal cost or suffering involved.
Love the Lord with all the confidence, all the Glory to God, Jesus called His disciples His friend, know what agape love is, and know that Jesus relationships were like colleague
One way to experience Him is seeing Him in the scriptures. Luke 24:27.........
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He (Jesus) explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.........
The more you look for Him in the OT, the more you will see Him. Now of course He is not here with us physically, but in Heaven. However, for everyone who is born into His body, we become one with Him. So when we gather together with those who keep the faith, Jesus is there in our midst. We are the body of Christ. This is why Jesus says if we've care for the least of the brethren, we've done it to Him.
And lastly for those who have received the Spirit, we have another comforter. He is our Teacher, and He leads us from the inside. He fulfills the role Jesus did in taking care of the disciples while He was on the earth. So ultimately this relationship happens on a deeper level than the earthly relationships we understand.
There is no magical "receiving" of the Holy Spirit (Comforter). The Comforter is within ALL humans because it is the "born again" human Spirit of Jesus. We need to be in one or more of the states of mind associated with the Holy Spirit as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross. That is what the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit means. We must be "in Christ" (in the "mind of Christ") to be guided by His Holy Spirit, period. We control our states of mind, (NOT what we truly believe). That is why our professed beliefs do not evoke the Holy Spirit, only our states of mind do that.
Jesus defines himself this way, as do infinite books, hymns, etc.
I am a believer, but I have never "felt" Jesus. I'm just being honest here. If we think about the definition of a friend, wouldn't Jesus be in the "imaginary" category? Because we can't hear, see, touch or feel him in any way. How can a human have a friend like that?
I have occasionally had a thought pop into my head that seems like it might be coming from a source outside my own mind, but I can't be certain. It certainly isn't like someone is "talking" to me.
This has been an ongoing struggle for me, so I'd appreciate any thoughts of how YOU experience Jesus as a friend .
Did you ever consider that maybe there was never a Jesus?
That it was made up by a bunch of rich people, and intellectuals, to control populations?
Not trying to downgrade your faith, but I was just wondering if you ever considered that it might be all made up, so you will follow "their" lead, if you get my drift.
Did you ever consider that maybe there was never a Jesus?
That it was made up by a bunch of rich people, and intellectuals, to control populations?
Not trying to downgrade your faith, but I was just wondering if you ever considered that it might be all made up, so you will follow "their" lead, if you get my drift.
Sure, I spent most of my life as an agnostic, which is why I am so full of questions that don't even occur to life-long Christians. I never questioned it until I was 18, then I absconded and "came back" 10 years ago. Struggling ever since.
I'm not "following" any particular dogma, just decided to believe in Jesus after all.
That's certainly what I was taught and believed. I wasn't seeking feelings as such, but a sense of actual communion, protection and refuge. the Bible is pretty specific about what Christians can expect from god. Whether you take the triumphalist approach ("victorious over sin", "answered prayer", etc) or the rather more mystical approach that allows for dark nights of the soul ("joy in the midst of sorrow, peace in the midst of pain", as one hymn has it), I did not really have that experience of god. It was like waiting for Godot.
Intellectually, sure. But even an emotionless "union" does ultimately produce MUTUAL benefit. God is pleased, believer is clued in / guided / protected / spiritually nurtured or otherwise blessed. If it is just doggedly living your life like everyone else, then eventually you have to wonder what the point is. If you can never please god or god can never act on your behalf, then you are no different from anyone with any random (dis)belief about spiritual matters.
I appreciate your insight and thoughts, as always, Mordant.
I know better than to expect "feelings"---it's not about that, I realize. But as humans, we DO have feelings and ways of communication that don't "work" in our spiritual life. I have not felt like God was "there" in my "dark nights of the soul" either.
But how can we know? It IS like waiting for Godot, lol. I guess that's where faith comes in. My own devout family cannot answer this question, so thought I'd ask here. It's sounding like the whole thing is more of an intellectual exercise, a firm faith foundation, a belief in that which we cannot see, hear or feel.
I admit I'm not sure "what the point is" but living life "doggedly" nevertheless.
One way to experience Him is seeing Him in the scriptures. Luke 24:27.........
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He (Jesus) explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.........
The more you look for Him in the OT, the more you will see Him. Now of course He is not here with us physically, but in Heaven. However, for everyone who is born into His body, we become one with Him. So when we gather together with those who keep the faith, Jesus is there in our midst. We are the body of Christ. This is why Jesus says if we've care for the least of the brethren, we've done it to Him.
And lastly for those who have received the Spirit, we have another comforter. He is our Teacher, and He leads us from the inside. He fulfills the role Jesus did in taking care of the disciples while He was on the earth. So ultimately this relationship happens on a deeper level than the earthly relationships we understand.
Yes, I read what Jesus did in the Scriptures. And his explanations. I know he is "there", as is the Comforter. I believe it, I just don't FEEL it.
My mother was very pious and devout. Spent all her time reading the Bible or religious books. But she admitted she never "felt" anything either. Especially painful for her was not ever experiencing the "joy" promised, that her relatives said they felt. So, she felt like something was "wrong" with her, and I inherited that lack too.
Did you ever consider that maybe there was never a Jesus?
That it was made up by a bunch of rich people, and intellectuals, to control populations?
Not trying to downgrade your faith, but I was just wondering if you ever considered that it might be all made up, so you will follow "their" lead, if you get my drift.
The idea that there was never a historical Jesus is so completely ridiculous that those who promote that idea should be embarrassed. Outside of a few fringe scholars who do promote that idea, mainstream scholarship has no use for it. The fact that Jesus existed historically doesn't mean that he was who and what he claimed to be, but he certainly did exist.
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